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CashMoney
July 21st, 2007, 07:19 PM
I had an idea on the way home tonight, instead of always dissing them, how about plan a trip with some responsible wheelers and take the enviromentalists over the rubicon or something like that so they could get out and see it from another point of view?

MIGHTYRAM97
July 21st, 2007, 08:31 PM
Oh and I'll bring the "Organic Milk" for the fruit loops you'll bring...:D
Seriously they'd ***** the whole way up there on how we shouldn't be there... !! but yet they drive in their SUV's and sip on Starbucks !! Environuts !!!:rolleyes: You can bring them so we can use some "Organic Toilet Paper" a.k.a. their hands and mouths !!

72 Virginians
July 21st, 2007, 08:40 PM
Members of some of the smaller enviro groups would welcome something like that. I know a few people that are members and they understand that we share the same goals of conserving the wilderness for ALL to enjoy.
The Sierra Club on the other hand are OPPOSED to cooperating with anyone associated with OHV access. They are emotionally charged that logically. Besides, something like that would give the Sierra Club ammo to spin a story that reflects ill on the OHV groups.
The Sierra Club began as great organization to help protect our nation's natural treasures so future generations could enjoy their beauty. Now they are made up of arm chair liberals unwilling to listen to facts and uncooperative towards other groups.

CashMoney
July 22nd, 2007, 04:30 AM
see thats what i'm sayin though, what if we took out those who could actually understand why we offroad, I bet a lot of them would change thier outlook on us when they went with responsible wheelers and acutally had a good time

BigNorm
July 22nd, 2007, 04:42 AM
They'd find a way to misconstrew (sp) it. I think it's about power. They get a kick out of restricting our countries wild lands for anyone other than themselves. They can justify cutting an air strip into the Montanna wild lands but will snub there nose at us and our hobby.

dharris
July 22nd, 2007, 06:37 AM
I had an idea on the way home tonight, instead of always dissing them, how about plan a trip with some responsible wheelers and take the enviromentalists over the rubicon or something like that so they could get out and see it from another point of view?

Actually that is a great idea. Most of them will not change their minds no matter what we do. When people are set in their ways, they are *set in their ways*.

I agree with allot of what environmentalist are trying to do TO A POINT. There needs to be happy medium we can agree to. That brings up another point, if there is a "happy medium", that means rules and regulations. There are some people out there that are against rules and regulations, not matter how much sense they make.

Great idea anyway:idea:, at least this shows some are trying to come to an agreement and look at the big picture.

72 Virginians
July 22nd, 2007, 06:38 AM
see thats what i'm sayin though, what if we took out those who could actually understand why we offroad, I bet a lot of them would change thier outlook on us when they went with responsible wheelers and acutally had a good time

Hell, it's worth a shot. :dunno:

Dirty Harry
July 22nd, 2007, 12:14 PM
I had an idea on the way home tonight, instead of always dissing them, how about plan a trip with some responsible wheelers and take the enviromentalists over the rubicon or something like that so they could get out and see it from another point of view?

That is a great idea. I have a friend from high school who works for a green advocacy group and has a degree in environmental policy and took her to Barrett Lake a few years ago. She was disappointed by some of the things she saw but overall had a good time. It has changed the way I perceive people's actions on the trail every since, I think that I learned as much as she did.

For those of you who know my exgirlfriend Jasmine, she is a conservation biologist and she would go wheeling and camping with me even though she is a member of the Sierra Club and Green Party.

BigNorm
July 22nd, 2007, 03:21 PM
Great idea Harry. Lets all join and destroy them from within. lol.

JK. Pardon my sick sense of humor.

Rockcrusher
July 22nd, 2007, 06:36 PM
I had an idea on the way home tonight, instead of always dissing them, how about plan a trip with some responsible wheelers and take the enviromentalists over the rubicon or something like that so they could get out and see it from another point of view?

Grand thought but it's been done to death and 99% of the time the results are the same . . . We get the shaft.

Take, for example, the case of the head weeniette of the Center for Sierra Nevada Conservation. This strident harpy had never even heard of Georgetown when she moved there in 1984 but she made it her singular goal to rid the world of the evil machines and even the horsey crowd. Although she didn't know squat about the Rubicon she included it in her goal of un-mechanizing the world.

In any event, several lifelong residents and wheelers from Georgetown got together and invited her as their guest on a Rubicon trip. The intention of the wheelers was to show this woman what the Rubicon Experience was all about.

During the trip, the woman ooh'd & aah'd and heaped praise on the wheelers for their Tread Lightly performance all the while assuring them that she would help them keep the trail open.

Well guess what . . . Shortly after this momentous and historic trip, this woman teamed up with the Center for Biological Diversity and, between the 2 organisations, filed suit in Federal Court to close every unpaved road in the Eldorado National Forest. As a direct result of that lawsuit we are no longer allowed to get more than 25 feet from the undefined centerline of a county road where it traverses USFS land.

So much for showing them another point of view.

BigNorm
July 22nd, 2007, 09:10 PM
May the fleas of a thousand cammels infest her private parts.

L.D.
July 22nd, 2007, 09:38 PM
I THINK THIS IS A WONDERFULL IDEA, BRING THOSE ECO FASCIST NUTBALLS DOWN INTO THE CON. WE POP THEM IN THE HEAD AND FEED THEM TO THE BEARS THEY BROUGHT OVER FROM YOSEMITE TO CHASE US OUT.

CashMoney
July 23rd, 2007, 01:17 AM
not all of them would always go to the extreme to fight against you, that woman will get whats coming too her. But what about the ones that would see a group that is on a clean up, or helping repair trails and stream drainage and whatnot? sometimes off roaders leave things better than they were and they don't ever get to see or hear that part

RedJeepFL
July 23rd, 2007, 03:40 AM
I think if they REALLY care about the environment then they should all do a mass suicide. This caring act would eliminate their carbon footprint, and greatly reduce consumption of gasoline, water and other natural resources. And we would live happily ever after. :wave:

4x Adventurer
July 23rd, 2007, 05:13 AM
I had an idea on the way home tonight, instead of always dissing them, how about plan a trip with some responsible wheelers and take the enviromentalists over the rubicon or something like that so they could get out and see it from another point of view?

Ah, Good tactic. It’s been tried before. The past has shown that you get better results if you take the politicians and law makers and their families.

Google: “Bill Dart”
http://www.sharetrails.org/releases/media/index.cfm?story=233&archive=1
I’ve spoken personally to this gentleman about his tactics and results. Its been many years, but I think you will find this is a man who’s done a LOT for Off-roading of all kind.

BigNorm
July 23rd, 2007, 08:32 AM
Unfortunately all they would see is the negative. They would see the trash that was left before you got there to pick it up. Some drunk asshole tearing **** up and the list would go on and on. The sad thing is that when the idea of public lands came up it was intended for all to enjoy. Now we have Nazis putting in signs saying we can't go to our "Public Lands"

Dirty Harry
July 23rd, 2007, 08:36 AM
They would see the trash that was left before you got there to pick it up. Some drunk asshole tearing **** up and the list would go on and on.

You see those things though too, right? I do, I am constantly disappointed by the wheeling community and having to defend their actions to others. Why doesn't our community police itself and take care of the problems instead of giving ammunition to the environmentalists?

krmnalcrawler
July 23rd, 2007, 03:39 PM
obviously there are radicals on each side.some dumb a$$ how careless about anything and would wheel over an ancient burial ground just to say he did. and some other A$$ on their side that would but up fence to keep us from any off pavement enjoyment period. But it always seems we are taking it the shorts. They are trying to take something away from us. We are not trying to take anything from them. We say share they say take. and until they get some level headed people in charge it will never change. It's not popular in their world to want to compromise they would be seen as turning to the enemy. they push the radicals and their views up the ladder. As far as policeing our own it has gotten way better than ever. There are more clubs than ever sponsering trails and holding clean ups. It's the whole bad apples deal and you can't be everywhere all the time. But if you keep promoting the sport in a positive way hopefully someday someone in power will realise we just want to enjoy the woods no destroy them. in my case i can no longer go hike off into the mountains. so should i never be allowed to enjoy them again. hell no. If it wasn't for my truck and my rhino i could never go off trail But the seirra club which has gotten out of control thinks i should not be allowed in and they have no comprimise. In my opinion the best way to prove our point is in the kids. The more kids that have positive experiences in the woods the better Take some other people with you when you go wheeling the more that see it in the true way it was meant to be seen the better. Whoever reaches the people has the votes and the votes wheel the power to open and close lands.Sorry my meds must be kicking in

SEMPER/FI

Craig

krmnalcrawler
July 23rd, 2007, 03:42 PM
By the way this is a good idea but you need to be careful how it is executed.

Craig

Dirty Harry
July 23rd, 2007, 04:07 PM
So how many people here poo-pooing this idea have actually tried it? It is easy to lump all of "them" into one catagory and they do exactly the same thing to "us". It seems like a defeatist attitude to me. I am curious to hear what the naysayers are doing to work to keep the trails open and if their methods have been effective.

Washoe Wrangler
July 23rd, 2007, 05:39 PM
my exgirlfriend Jasmine, she is a conservation biologist and she is a member of the Sierra Club and Green Party.

:eek: AH HA! I NEW IT! I NEW IT! I NEW IT! YOU PINKO ! :D Just kidding!


It seems like a defeatist attitude to me. I am curious to hear what the naysayers are doing to work to keep the trails open and if their methods have been effective.

Your absolutely right !

When we ask for help sandblasting graffitti or plan a clean up, how many of you noble gentlemen show up to help? I'll answer for you ! Not one person that has posted on this thread:pissed:

When RareCJ8 posted information regarding trail closures in the El Dorado National Forest, and suggested showing up at the public comment meetings, how many of you noble gentlemen respond to the thread? I'll answer for you ! Not one person that has posted on this thread:pissed:

When I ask you guys to write letters to the Toyaibe National Forrest Rangers Office in Carson City regarding the Martis Creek Travel Plan, how many of you noble gentlemen wrote letters? I'll answer for you! Not one person that has posted on this thread:pissed:

DON"T TRY TO BULL$HIT ME, I ALREADY HAVE A TURD IN EVERY POCKET !

Now is your chance to do something positive;) for wheeling. Thursday night 7-26-07 there is a meeting regarding the El Dorado Route Designation Plan (for you who don't know the lingo "designation" means "closure") It will be held at the Turtle Rock Community Center. It's located between Woodsford and Markleeville on hwy 88. The meeting starts at 7:00pm and should last about a hour or so.

I have a Dodge crewcab with room for three. If you would like to ride to the meeting with me just p.m. me ! I don't bite, and I won't bring my chainsaw or bondage tools, I promise!

CHECK OUT THE THREAD IN "LAND USE"

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't get involved in the Forrest Service Planning process, you'll be flexing out that bada$$ new lift kit at the mall.

Goverment is not the solution to our problems, goverment is the problem!
Ronald Regan

Rest in peace!

Dirty Harry
July 23rd, 2007, 05:51 PM
Now is your chance to do something positive;) for wheeling. Thursday night 7-26-07 there is a meeting regarding the El Dorado Route Designation Plan (for you who don't know the lingo "designation" means "closure") It will be held at the Turtle Rock Community Center. It's located between Woodsford and Markleeville on hwy 88. The meeting starts at 7:00pm and should last about a hour or so.


Excellent!!! I wish that I was around to attend. I am active in SDOHVC in South Dakota and NMOHVC in New Mexico and a life member of both. I also helped with publicity for WCBC and did numerous cleanups when I lived in Reno. Thanks for doing your part Pat and volunteering to drive, apathy is an even bigger enemy than environmentalists. :thumbsup:

Sierra Valley
July 23rd, 2007, 05:53 PM
For those of you who know my exgirlfriend Jasmine, she is a conservation biologist and she would go wheeling and camping with me even though she is a member of the Sierra Club and Green Party.

Ya I think she found b2krawlers gas tank puncture mildly amusing on Billy Bobs:D

kairo
July 23rd, 2007, 06:04 PM
Ya I think she found b2krawlers gas tank puncture mildly amusing on Billy Bobs:D

hahah priceless!

Dirty Harry
July 23rd, 2007, 06:33 PM
Ya I think she found b2krawlers gas tank puncture mildly amusing on Billy Bobs:D

:nono: I asked her to go with me and shoot photos and I came home and all I had were 50 photos of his leaky gas tank. :mad: She was already upset though because she didn't get to drive the Turbota.

Sierra Valley
July 23rd, 2007, 06:35 PM
:nono: I asked her to go with me and shoot photos and I came home and all I had were 50 photos of his leaky gas tank. :mad: She was already upset though because she didn't get to drive the Turbota.

What was really funny was when Shawn popped off something about it all washing away in the next storm:D Then you mentioned about her political affiliations and we were like oh snap:eek:

CashMoney
July 24th, 2007, 03:38 AM
Ah, Good tactic. It’s been tried before. The past has shown that you get better results if you take the politicians and law makers and their families.

Google: “Bill Dart”
http://www.sharetrails.org/releases/media/index.cfm?story=233&archive=1
I’ve spoken personally to this gentleman about his tactics and results. Its been many years, but I think you will find this is a man who’s done a LOT for Off-roading of all kind.

ah see what beer does to you on the weekend...i forgot to add that, definatly politicians

BigNorm
July 24th, 2007, 07:09 AM
You see those things though too, right? I do, I am constantly disappointed by the wheeling community and having to defend their actions to others. Why doesn't our community police itself and take care of the problems instead of giving ammunition to the environmentalists?

I pick up trash I see as I go. It's not much but it is something. As far as assholes. we'll always have them. Kids being kids. Drunks being drunks. And God knows who you'll encounter when you are out there. As stupid as it is I am guilty of going out by myself. I back it up by telling my wife exactly where I'm going and what route I'm going to take. And more often than not I forget the boom sticks at home. (Guns aren't incredibly entertaining to me after the Army. They're tools to me. Not toys) I need to remember them. Most times I'll avoid the Neo Nazi skinheads if they are obviously drunk, high, or just plane stupid. You can't talk to them. They come to destroy and the same as gun legislation if wheeling is outlawed only outlaws will wheel so they're stupid legislation is for nothing anyway because the same assholes who are creating the problem will still be doing what they do.

Dirty Harry
July 24th, 2007, 06:09 PM
Well guess what . . . Shortly after this momentous and historic trip, this woman teamed up with the Center for Biological Diversity and, between the 2 organisations, filed suit in Federal Court to close every unpaved road in the Eldorado National Forest. As a direct result of that lawsuit we are no longer allowed to get more than 25 feet from the undefined centerline of a county road where it traverses USFS land.


I don't think that is a bad compromise. I don't think that people should be driving more than 25 feet off of the trail. I don't have an issue with the Forest Service controlled gates on Dusy or Barrett either, they seem to help limit impact on the trail. They days of a "free for all" are long gone, rockcrawling's popularity is its own worst enemy.

BigNorm
July 24th, 2007, 07:32 PM
I don't think that is a bad compromise. I don't think that people should be driving more than 25 feet off of the trail. I don't have an issue with the Forest Service controlled gates on Dusy or Barrett either, they seem to help limit impact on the trail. They days of a "free for all" are long gone, rockcrawling's popularity is its own worst enemy.

I guess we should start keeping the local haunts quiet then.

Dirty Harry
July 24th, 2007, 07:43 PM
I guess we should start keeping the local haunts quiet then.

From me? :sick: I know that there are a lot of local wheelers who want to keep their trails quiet. Reno is not unique in this respect. When I was home at the beginning of the month I went to a hardcore trail that has only been ran a few times. Still, there were rocks stacked, oil stains, and beer cans in the trail. :pissed: It is so unfortunate that we foul our own nests. :(