Cummins vs. Powerstroke vs. Duramax

[Denis]

Since my Frontier is for sale, I am starting to look at other trucks. Looking to buy couple years old. What are the pros and cons of the above mentioned diesels? The years I am looking for are 2002-2004.

[89jeepcpl]

I just bought my first duramax, in fact just brought it home today! I also have a
01' f-350 7.3 with a 80 horse chip, my work truck is a 07' f-450 .

I had a 1999 Dodge great drive train thats about it!!

Having driven all three, the new ford and new duramax are close in power and run circles around my 01' ford, the gmc has a way better ride then the ford.

I know the 03'-06' fords have some major problems, and dodge has a great drive train but still has issues with quality in the rest of the truck.

I have two friends one owns TNT Automotive and the other is the service manager for a Dodge dealer ( not here in reno ) based on thier input I bought the duramax.

Of course you can find people that have had issues with all brands.

I normally buy mostly bare bones trucks, but the duramax I bought loaded
Full navigation, heated seats, back up alarms for objects behind ya and back up camera, and a whole bunch of other crap I'll maybe never use:D

Dodge & ford are tried & tested, Duramax well, we will see!!! :scratch:

2002 - 2004 are bad years for fords so I'd say Dodge or GMC

[Dirty Harry]

I've had the chance to tow with all three (2005 models, automatic transmissions) with my Toyota on a trailer from Sacramento to Reno. I like the Dodge best. Most low end torque, pulls the nicest, best mileage (equal to the Chevy to be honest), and turns the tightest. I could drive a quad cab shortbed for a daily driver and never feel like it is too big. My biggest concern with the Dodge was the automatic transmission. They do not exactly have a stellar reputation, especially when you turn up the power.

The Chevy was nice and I love the Allison transmission, but it just didn't do it for me. It is like a diesel that wants to be a gas engine. Quiet, wide powerband, but did not pull from low RPMs as good as the Dodge. People say that the Chevy interior is the nicest too but I did not care for it, too "Play skool" for me with huge buttons.

I liked the Ford the least. Even with the change from leaf springs to coils (started in '05), it still turned like a school bus. The engines sound like a garbage can full rocks and you have to rev the piss out of them to make any power. I was kind of shocked because you see lots of Super Dutys around town and I always figured that was the truck for me with the solid axles and great suspension design.

[89jeepcpl]

Ya my 01 powersroke sounds like a somebody beat'n on a tin fence :D

I have'nt been in a dodge in a long time but i do know the 08' duramax pulls hard right out of the gate, they made some changes to the interior the buttons are a lot smaller this year, my brother has a 06' and your right the buttons are pretty big.

Dodge pulls better out of the gate but the duramax continues to pull when the dodge kinda runs out of top end.

But like I said it's been quite while since I have been in a Dodge, the only thing that bothers me about the gmc is the motors have not really had enough years on them to tell the long term story.

I hate to say it but ford is out for me..

I

[Denis]

Well, Dodge was on top of my list, then Ford, then GMC/Chevy, but I haven't driven either of those with a diesel. I've been in Sam's brand new Sierra and that's the truck I would get if I was buying new. GM did a nice job redesigning the interior.

[Connect]

Cummins. 03 and up are the HO motors (there was a change mid year, or an option???)

[89jeepcpl]

I just put 500 miles on ours and so far I love it, If you are going to buy 2 or 3 yrs old I'd say dodge,

New truck GMC!

We went hunting last week area 033, we took my brothers 06' duramax and pulled his 38' toy hauler loaded with 3 quads, bbQ, 140 gallons of watter, food, clothes, around 18 thousand pounds loaded and we never had a lack of power that truck pulled hard from bottom to top.

Dialable chip with propane injection, most of this haul was just with the chip.

QUESTION ? what kinda top end pull does the cummings have?

[cblood™]

All I know is Ford so I really can't give an opinion on Dodge or Chevy. As far as used Fords anything from 99-03 (7.3) would be a great buy. Any thing 03-05 (6.0) bad choice. As far as 06 and up they seem to have FINALLY worked the kinks out. The 08's have been solid so far. I have not seen any in with drive ability issues as of yet. If you have any questions about any of these ask me. :thumbsup:

[Dirty Harry]

Cummins. 03 and up are the HO motors (there was a change mid year, or an option???)

They went to common rail injection in '03, the HO option did not come out until 04.5.


QUESTION ? what kinda top end pull does the cummings have?

It is a giant, heavy inline six, it has basically no top end. This things are made to pull huge loads though, I would rather have the torque down low in a tow rig. Diesel engines are not made to rev (or at least they shouldn't be IMO).

[CashMoney]

All I know is Ford so I really can't give an opinion on Dodge or Chevy. As far as used Fords anything from 99-03 (7.3) would be a great buy. Any thing 03-05 (6.0) bad choice. As far as 06 and up they seem to have FINALLY worked the kinks out. The 08's have been solid so far. I have not seen any in with drive ability issues as of yet. If you have any questions about any of these ask me. :thumbsup:

I agree with not getin the 03-05 fords either, a kid at my shop had his rear main leak 3 times in 10K miles before he traded it in for a GMC, and the 6.0 ford never got anything better than 10mpg loaded or unloaded.

I don't know much about the dodges other than the cummins has been around a long time and has proven itself reliable.

We own 6 GMC's with the Duramax's and have had great luck with them. The only probs have been mine with injectors (which are warrentied for some insane amount of miles) and winkel blowing up my motor during an injector job, which they ended up paying for.

As far as the Allisons, even they need to be beefed up if you are going to make more power than stock, but if the engines left stock they will probally outlive the truck. The tow/haul mode is also awsome when it comes to downshifting it self going down hills withought an exhaust brake.

One of my drivers is putting his 4door dmax for sale which is already lifted with a fabtech lift and has super low miles, I think its either an 05 or 06, i'll get a price from him if you want

[trainwreck]

Just pop the hoods. The dodge's engine is extremely simple to work on/modify. Reliable. million mile motor...thats about it....:smokin:

[89jeepcpl]

Million mile motor! true

But 150k truck ! Maybe

and 50 k is way to much for any truck.

[Dirty Harry]

But 150k truck ! Maybe


On the Dodge? What do you see wearing out after 150k miles? I have heard this for a long time and I think that it was true of Dodges 15 years ago but doesn't hold true any longer in my experience.

[poor boy pulling]

Million mile motor! true

But 150k truck ! Maybe

and 50 k is way to much for any truck.

On the Dodge? What do you see wearing out after 150k miles? I have heard this for a long time and I think that it was true of Dodges 15 years ago but doesn't hold true any longer in my experience.

well i have a 97 dodge with 195k on it and havent had any problems with it, the bodys arnt great but they do hold up and no my truck isnt stock but if you do the maintenance on them like any other vehicle they are a great truck:thumbsup:

[89jeepcpl]

On the Dodge? What do you see wearing out after 150k miles? I have heard this for a long time and I think that it was true of Dodges 15 years ago but doesn't hold true any longer in my experience.

My only experience was owning a 99' Dodge, knobs fell off the panel, seats wore out prematurely, nuts bolts & screws all vibrated loose, just a bunck of little things that went wrong.

thats where I became really good friends with the service manager, and we are still good friends today, when I was looking for a truck last week I asked him about Dodge and he said for the most part they are a great truck but still have issues with quality an some areas, I'd look at GMC!

But again I think thats true with any rig, and it is a prefrence of what people like I have allways been a ford fan but the last few years have been bad for ford, and with the cost of trucks Im looking more at dependability over brand!

[CashMoney]

Million mile motor! true

But 150k truck ! Maybe

and 50 k is way to much for any truck.

you know whats sad about that is Peterbilt is coming out with a mini truck like those international EXT things or whatever they are that can haul way more than a reg pickup for the same price

[H2ORodeo]

I have two friends one owns TNT Automotive and the other is the service manager for a Dodge dealer ( not here in reno ) based on thier input I bought the duramax.

Doesn't terry still drive his psd dually? His dad has an older powerstroke with like 500,000 miles on it too if I remember right. He ( at least used to be) a big fan of the fords.

My 99 Powerstroke has been great. It does ride like a truck, but that's what I like in my truck. The GM's to me were too much like driving a car. As far as the Dodges go, I've seen more with body/interior issues than without but I do have a friend with a 01 and has had no issues through 250,000 miles.

Drive em' all, pick the one that suits you best. Every one of them has "issues" but taken care of, they will all last you a good long time.....................with the exception of the 03-05 ford 6.0's that is!:D

[MIGHTYRAM97]

Cummins = stump pullin power, Reliable for longevity, we have about 37k on ours now and avg. 20-23mpg unloaded freeway. :thumbsup: Maintanince is super easy on them as well...and tons of power adders/upgrades, and aftermarket trans. options...(also the least amount of shop time for the '05 M.Y.) Real issues of the Dodges are usually balljoint issues and tracbars since the cummins is a portly fella...approx 1,100# over any front end is askin alot...

[BigNorm]

I have a first gen cummins and I love it. They detune the crap out of the stock injector pump but that is easilly modified. Cummins seem to make more HP than the Ford 7.3. (Don't buy a 6.0!) but when I'm towing with my dads 7.3 powerstroke it's like whatever you are pulling just isn't there. It goes just as fast with a trailer it seems than without and I like it for that reason. I've heard alot of people who like the Duramax but have no personal experience with them. The biggest asset I can see over the other two (if you can call it that) is that they are the quietest of the 3. Personally I like my unmuffled 5.9L Schoolbus sounding Dodge.

[B2Krawler]

I work for a nearby fire dept, most of us drive the PSD or CTD
i personally have a 04 CTD
its true the ball joints wear out and the coil springs start to sag with all that weight in the CTD, but I have not seen the coil spring problem on the 03 and newer,

seems like both trucks have ball joint and unit bearing issues with all that weight,

As far as the interior, does not seem to be a problem with the 03 and up and I have several friends with the 99-02 that have no problems with the interior, but I have seen a few that do

It really comes down to the drivetrain for me, the CTD engine is just so much more relaible/simple and easy to work on if you needed to.
they both have ****ty auto trannies for all that power, but fords is stronger (about 3x bigger too)
my ctd has a programmer and I am certain that I would smoke my tranny with it turned up all the way on a constant basis, but so would the Ford

the 6.0 psd had a lot of issues, but most were recalled, injectors, wiring harnesses, turbos, the block seems okay, othere than a few head gaskets on the 04-05

they guys at work with the 7.3 do have less issues, but also have slightly less power in stock form (still has plenty though)

Dodge has more turbo lag, but is also a more reliable turbo (non-adjustable turbo veins in the dodge)

I think the Ford has a more stout cab/body, my dodge is not as air tight as a ford, and you can tell with a strong cross wind while driving fast, (a lot of wind noise at the doors)
I have noticed the Fords tailgates are junk, they bend with just your body weight

I was in the market for both, but the dodge came along 1st,

both of the new 6.4 PSD and 6.7 CTD are having engine/turbo issues that Im sure will good by 08, Sine these vehicles now have a variety of emmissions equipment, they had to bump up the displacement to get the same or slightly more power of the old ones

If you have two comprable trucks it would come down to price for me, they are both good and bad

[cblood™]

I work for a nearby fire dept, most of us drive the PSD or CTD
i personally have a 04 CTD
its true the ball joints wear out and the coil springs start to sag with all that weight in the CTD, but I have not seen the coil spring problem on the 03 and newer,

seems like both trucks have ball joint and unit bearing issues with all that weight,

As far as the interior, does not seem to be a problem with the 03 and up and I have several friends with the 99-02 that have no problems with the interior, but I have seen a few that do

It really comes down to the drivetrain for me, the CTD engine is just so much more relaible/simple and easy to work on if you needed to.
they both have ****ty auto trannies for all that power, but fords is stronger (about 3x bigger too)
my ctd has a programmer and I am certain that I would smoke my tranny with it turned up all the way on a constant basis, but so would the Ford

the 6.0 psd had a lot of issues, but most were recalled, injectors, wiring harnesses, turbos, the block seems okay, othere than a few head gaskets on the 04-05

they guys at work with the 7.3 do have less issues, but also have slightly less power in stock form (still has plenty though)

Dodge has more turbo lag, but is also a more reliable turbo (non-adjustable turbo veins in the dodge)

I think the Ford has a more stout cab/body, my dodge is not as air tight as a ford, and you can tell with a strong cross wind while driving fast, (a lot of wind noise at the doors)
I have noticed the Fords tailgates are junk, they bend with just your body weight

I was in the market for both, but the dodge came along 1st,

both of the new 6.4 PSD and 6.7 CTD are having engine/turbo issues that Im sure will good by 08, Sine these vehicles now have a variety of emmissions equipment, they had to bump up the displacement to get the same or slightly more power of the old ones

If you have two comprable trucks it would come down to price for me, they are both good and bad

:scratch: What issues does the 6.4 PSD have?

[MIGHTYRAM97]

:scratch: What issues does the 6.4 PSD have?

heads and turbos.. head gaskets blowing out and heads cracking, as well as turbo failures, and $hitty milage :nervous:

[PizzaJeep]

i cant personally vouch for the PSD or the Dmax but heres my experience with the CTD.

+AWESOME mileage
+great low end power
+indestructible(in stock form)
+manageable driving manuvering manners. doesnt feel like steering a boat. the 2001.5 and later has disk brakes in the rear and makes quick work of braking!
+simpler engine design and engine bay organization makes life easier on maintaining your vehicle yourself

~ not super nice chevy-like interior... though it was like stepping into a limo after driving my TJ daily for 3 years!!

-transmission doesnt like much more than stock power before it needs some upgraded parts to stay alive
-fuel tank-to injection pump pump will most likely go out on you if it is a 2002 or older...(think of it as the dana 35 of the dodge pickups)
-dodges with a diesel in it eat stock track bars like candy.

[CashMoney]

hey no chance of death wobble on the gm :thumbsup:

[cblood™]

heads and turbos.. head gaskets blowing out and heads cracking, as well as turbo failures, and $hitty milage :nervous:

I just checked for TSB's asscosiated with the 6.4, none if which involved anything to do with heads,overheating etc... The only thing involving an issue was the rerouting of the downpipe due to exshaust smell inside cab. I think you are thinking of the 6.0.:scratch:

[B2Krawler]

just had a 6.4 PSD low end turbo go out on one of our new ambulances today, it has 2,500 miles on it. It was really powerful up till that point:thumbsup:, The ****ty thing is there is no warrenty because it is an emergency vehicle, it will be probably be handled in court.


This is not the 1st one I have heared of!!!
Its probably going to be just like the 2004, lots of problems at 1st

looks like if you want a good Diesel truck that is actually made in America, you may need to wait for Toyota, as strange as that sounds?

Hecho en Mexico, esta no bueno

[Denis]

looks like if you want a good Diesel truck that is actually made in America, you may need to wait for Toyota, as strange as that sounds?

Hecho en Mexico, esta no bueno

Nissan was also going to put an International diesel in the Titan, but they canned that project. We'll see if Toyota sticks with it.

And GM, Ford and Dodge are all working on a diesel light-duty trucks. Dodge will get a small Cummins, F-150 will get a Land Rover v8 diesel, what engine will the Chevy get? Isuzu?

[DBXJ]

Nissan was also going to put an International diesel in the Titan, but they canned that project. We'll see if Toyota sticks with it.

And GM, Ford and Dodge are all working on a diesel light-duty trucks. Dodge will get a small Cummins, F-150 will get a Land Rover v8 diesel, what engine will the Chevy get? Isuzu?

izuzu makes GM's current diesel's

as for the F-150 tthey where saying it was gonna be a international twinturbo V-6 a 4.9 or somthing,
But that new land rover motor is pretty nice



The Range Rover's new diesel engine, developed with PSA/Peugeot-Citroen SA, was launched this year in Europe and looks like an ideal engine for a light-duty truck. The 267-hp V-8 develops 472 pounds-feet of torque - plenty of pulling power for consumers who might use a diesel F-150 to haul small trailers. The British market Range Rover gets 25 mpg.

[CashMoney]

I just checked for TSB's asscosiated with the 6.4, none if which involved anything to do with heads,overheating etc... The only thing involving an issue was the rerouting of the downpipe due to exshaust smell inside cab. I think you are thinking of the 6.0.:scratch:

exhaust smell in the cab....no bueno

[Dirty Harry]

what engine will the Chevy get? Isuzu?

They are calling the new small V8 diesel a Duramax but it was entirely designed in house by GM, not by Isuzu.

[CashMoney]

just had a 6.4 PSD low end turbo go out on one of our new ambulances today, it has 2,500 miles on it. It was really powerful up till that point:thumbsup:, The ****ty thing is there is no warrenty because it is an emergency vehicle, it will be probably be handled in court.


This is not the 1st one I have heared of!!!
Its probably going to be just like the 2004, lots of problems at 1st

looks like if you want a good Diesel truck that is actually made in America, you may need to wait for Toyota, as strange as that sounds?

Hecho en Mexico, esta no bueno

you know what really sucks about having two turbos, is that most of the time if you lose one, its going to take out the other one too

[cblood™]

just had a 6.4 PSD low end turbo go out on one of our new ambulances today, it has 2,500 miles on it. It was really powerful up till that point:thumbsup:, The ****ty thing is there is no warrenty because it is an emergency vehicle, it will be probably be handled in court.


This is not the 1st one I have heared of!!!
Its probably going to be just like the 2004, lots of problems at 1st

looks like if you want a good Diesel truck that is actually made in America, you may need to wait for Toyota, as strange as that sounds?

Hecho en Mexico, esta no bueno

:scratch: Are sure it's a 6.4 in that ambulance? As far as I know there is no option in the E series for the 6.4. Look at the first letter in the VIN if it's 1 it was made in the U.S, and if the 8th digit is a P it is a 6.0

[CashMoney]

Just saw this on dieselpage.com
Unable to meet stricter emissions regulations, the 7.3L (444 cu in) Power Stroke was replaced by the 6.0 L (366.1 cu in) during the 2003 year model. This version lasted through 2006 (2007 model year). Many 6.0 L Power Stroke engines proved unreliable,[1] costing Ford hundreds of millions of dollars in warranty repairs and leading to a recall and repurchase of 500 trucks (due to the Lemon Law). The major problem with the Navistar diesel engines are due to damage resulting from defective fuel injectors, which suffer from side loading, which then causes raw fuel to flood and enter the engine's oil crankcase or hydro-lock the engine. The previous occurrence is so disastrous that a total engine replacement is often required. There were also minor problems resulting from the unreliable factory variable-vane turbocharger, head gasket problems, EGR valve carbon deposit clogging/sticking, defective Exhaust Pressure (EP) sensor/connector, extensive PCM recalibrations, fuel injector harness chafing/crushing, general engine stalling/bucking, and inability to conform to the new Federal diesel emissions standards of January 1, 2007.
The engine had an 3.74 in (95 mm) bore and 4.13 in (104.9 mm) stroke for a displacement of 365 cu in (6 L) or 5954 CC. It utilized a turbocharger and intercooler, producing 325 hp (242 kW) and 570 ft·lbf (773 N·m) with an 18:1 compression ratio, redlining at 4500 rpm.

[fogger25]

They went to common rail injection in '03, the HO option did not come out until 04.5.



It is a giant, heavy inline six, it has basically no top end. This things are made to pull huge loads though, I would rather have the torque down low in a tow rig. Diesel engines are not made to rev (or at least they shouldn't be IMO).

First, there was an HO that started in 01. But you are correct, the common rail injection wasn't until 03.


I like many others here apparently have pulled with both. I have always had a bias for ford.

However, my experience with a 2002 ford Lariet 7.3 were good, but the motor lacked in comparison to the Dodge and the GM. The tranny did as well as I felt it didn't shift down to help slow the load at all. I felt like i was free rolling the whole time through the canyon from auburn to cool.

I have never liked gm due to the ford-gm rivalry, but that being said the 03 duramax I drove was pretty breathtaking. I was overwhelmed with how well it pulled and slowed itself down going throw the canyon from auburn to cool. Those are pretty steep grades and I barely touched the brakes pulling my jeep. This is simply all thanks to the allison. I once again was very impressed with this truck.

Now for the dodge, I pulled with a 04.5 HO with the bigger auto tranny. To be honest, it made more power than the gm did, but not by much. The tranny helped to slow the load down better than the ford did, but not by much.

For me, I just picked up a 01.5 dodge laramie cummins for 14 grand and love it. I am very happy with the choice I made. Beautiful interior and a solid truck to match. The dodges only fall apart interior wise if you beat on them.

This is what I believe it will come down to for you because it did me. Price. The gms are going to be the most expensive by far. Followed by ford then dodge. All three as said have there ups and downs. So for me I believe you should by whatever you get a good deal on....

[CashMoney]

Hey Dennis if you do get a duramax let me know I can set you up with a tow tune and correct for tire size dirt cheap when my EFILive program shows up tomorrow. I think its only 100 bucks per a liesence for other trucks and i saw a deal now for the older LB7 and LLY motors that lets you switch between 5 tunes for 40bucks :thumbsup:

[Denis]

Sold the Frontier today. Now the search begins.

[poor boy pulling]

Sold the Frontier today. Now the search begins.

woot:thumbsup:

[Bob]

I have an '05 Ford F-250 6.0 and havent had a lick of trouble with it. The last outfit I worked for had 2 Fords, an '04 & '05, both with 6.0s. Even with every idiot driving them, neither had many problems.
In short- go drive 'em all and buy what fits your A** & wallet. After all- every mfg (yes-even Toyota) has it's share of problems.

[troyintahoe]

Carson Dodge is advertising $14,000 below. I drive an 06 Megacab. I tow a 35 foot fifth wheel. It weighs 11,000 dry and my truck weigs 8,800 lbs. I pull over all the passes around here with no problems. I've also towed to southern cali and over the Ortega highway with it:thumbsup:.

I can spin tires with the car hauler unloaded and hooked up.:eek:

Gets 22 mpg highway unloaded. 40,000 miles with no issues.

350 Horse 610 Torque

My two cents, Troy

[poose]

My 04 f250 is a great truck if it works.

[DBXJ]

kind of a old thread to dig up

[PizzaJeep]

so has denis even bought a [real] tow rig yet??

[poor boy pulling]

so has denis even bought a [real] tow rig yet??

didnt he get a titan or somthing

[yobeez]

here's my $0.02......


If your hauling heavy loads or plan on doing some mild 4-wheeling or adding a lift, go with the Dodge

If you haul small (quads, boat, car) I'd go with the Chevy/GM......the Dmax/Ally combo is the way to go. The IFS is GM's only drawback. A friend of mine had a broken tie rod at 70 mph pulling his boat to AZ (Fabtech 8" with 37's & 20's).......sold it when he got back.

If I had to do it all over again I'd still pick the Chevy........I should have spent the money on a D60 and some coilovers instead of my CST.

I would get a Titan if I was getting a gasser, so good choice there.

[PizzaJeep]

aaahh... none of the other 2 will beat my '05 quad cab dodge laramie. i get a cummins, a BASA$$ interior, heated leather seats, full entertainment system, smooth ride, a solid front axle and after this weekend ive got all of my old horsepower back. oh yes.

[Denis]

so has denis even bought a [real] tow rig yet??

I got a Titan. Not quite a tow rig, but lots of room inside and I like the style (it's my 3rd Nissan in a row). It's got a tow package and rated to tow 9400lbs, but it will be awhile before it sees anything hooked up to the hitch.

[440SCOUT]

I just checked for TSB's asscosiated with the 6.4, none if which involved anything to do with heads,overheating etc... The only thing involving an issue was the rerouting of the downpipe due to exshaust smell inside cab. I think you are thinking of the 6.0.:scratch:
that doent mean anything, they just released a tsb for the 97-03 7.3 cam sensors that every 7.3 owner has known about for years...

[440SCOUT]

i bought a 03 excursion with the 7.3 a little over 2yrs ago i have put over 60000 miles since i got it.
the only problem ive had was the cam sensor.
it tows everything i need it to tow, is comfortable ,and is reliable as hell.
i have driven the ctd 's, just about every one is faster than the ex and i have done some stoplight action with the newer duramax's. and they flat crush my 7.3:(but im happy with my truck, and as long as i dont have to work on it im good:thumbsup:

[cblood™]

that doent mean anything, they just released a tsb for the 97-03 7.3 cam sensors that every 7.3 owner has known about for years...

ummm thats not a TSB. It is a FSA totally different.

[TwinStick]

Even though you have a truck, I am going to give my experience with diesels.

I owned a 2005 GMC with the Duramax. That truck pulled my old toy hauler over grades like nothing else. I had no engine mods on it and never planned on getting any either. The interior was very comfortable and the transmission really kicked ass. This was just before they had the 6 speed Allison. Still a great transmission.

I have no experience with Dodge or Cummins.

I have only driven and own a 7.3l Navstar in a 2000 F350. I bought this with all sorts of Banks power stuff on it. It is a good engine but it is louder and not as powerful as the Duramax. I noticed this the most on pulling grades with a trailer. My Ford does ok but that Duramax was awesome. I like the Ford truck much better than the GMC. It is more of a truck. Yeah, most of it had to do with having a solid axle up front.

I have heard good and bad things about the 6.0s, just depends really. The new 6.4s seem fairly good although I read about the ambulance blowing the turbo, wow, that sucks. The engines might have some bugs to work out but the body style of the Fords now? wtf?

[Dirty Harry]

I have heard good and bad things about the 6.0s, just depends really. The new 6.4s seem fairly good although I read about the ambulance blowing the turbo, wow, that sucks. The engines might have some bugs to work out but the body style of the Fords now? wtf?

The 6.4L engines are having problems but all of the new trucks are having problems with the added emissions controls. Ford is designing their own diesel and will not be using International once their contract expires in 2011, what does that tell you?

I agree that the Duramax is powerful and quiet and has a wide power band, almost makes you think that it is a gas engine. The trucks are very comfortable too, but I agree that it is almost to the point that it stops feeling and sounding like a truck and starts to seem too "delicate" (for lack of a better word). I still like the Dodges the best out of the three but I wouldn't buy one with the 6.7L engine.

[poor boy pulling]

The 6.4L engines are having problems but all of the new trucks are having problems with the added emissions controls. Ford is designing their own diesel and will not be using International once their contract expires in 2011, what does that tell you?

I agree that the Duramax is powerful and quiet and has a wide power band, almost makes you think that it is a gas engine. The trucks are very comfortable too, but I agree that it is almost to the point that it stops feeling and sounding like a truck and starts to seem too "delicate" (for lack of a better word). I still like the Dodges the best out of the three but I wouldn't buy one with the 6.7L engine.

i also heard in 2009 or 2010 gm is going with a new 6.9 duracrap and its going to be rated at 750ft of torque

[TwinStick]

I agree that the Duramax is powerful and quiet and has a wide power band, almost makes you think that it is a gas engine. The trucks are very comfortable too, but I agree that it is almost to the point that it stops feeling and sounding like a truck and starts to seem too "delicate" (for lack of a better word).

Yeah, I read that comment you made about the GMC/Chevy trucks and I agree with you.

[cblood™]

[QUOTE=Dirty Harry;207310]The 6.4L engines are having problems but all of the new trucks are having problems with the added emissions controls. Ford is designing their own diesel and will not be using International once their contract expires in 2011, what does that tell you?

:nono: 6.4' are NOT having problems. yeah 03-04 6.0 suck, but 05-07's are good trucks. I think we have seen 4 6.4's with bad injectors. The first production had to much prssure coming from the degas bottle causing radiator leaks, but that has been addressed. There are NO 6.4's in ambulances or vans. Those are 6.0's.

[Dirty Harry]

:nono: 6.4' are NOT having problems.

If you consider pinched down intercooler piping, 8 mpg, injector failures, and haiving to remove the cab to access the heads and turbo "not problems" than I guess you are right. :gapteeth:

[H2ORodeo]

I think I'll just stick with my 99' Powerstroke with 140k on it. I swear it's bombproof....:D New does not always mean better!

[CashMoney]

We've got about 6 Duramax's, and i've got a couple employees with them also. Only problems any of us have had is injectors, and those are all covered under warrenty because they extended it. My failures of the motor blowing up was caused by winkels shop and they ended up paying for the whole thing. From what i've noticed from the guys around here is none of them seem to like the ford motors after the 7.3 powerstroke and one of them had a 6.4 for a while but hated getting 10mpg unloaded all the time so he went and bought an 07 duramax with all the emissions crap and is getting anywhere from 15-20 mpg now. I don't know about them not being like a truck I guess riding good is not allowed if you own a truck or something :scratch:

[DBXJ]

[quote=Dirty Harry;207310]The 6.4L engines are having problems but all of the new trucks are having problems with the added emissions controls. Ford is designing their own diesel and will not be using International once their contract expires in 2011, what does that tell you?

:nono: 6.4' are NOT having problems. yeah 03-04 6.0 suck, but 05-07's are good trucks. I think we have seen 4 6.4's with bad injectors. The first production had to much prssure coming from the degas bottle causing radiator leaks, but that has been addressed. There are NO 6.4's in ambulances or vans. Those are 6.0's.



well Clint i just worked on a ambulance today but its the truck front end with a ambulance rear its Truckee's so far all I've heard from them is its awesome and there looking at getting some more,
they just barley came out with it 2 months ago so the one before saying the turbo blew in it is BS, only major issue i have seen with the 6.4's has been the radiators.

and i've sen plenty of 6.4's come in with 15+ its all in the axle ratios

[cblood™]

If you consider pinched down intercooler piping, 8 mpg, injector failures, and haiving to remove the cab to access the heads and turbo "not problems" than I guess you are right. :gapteeth:

hmmm wonder why chevy, and dodge even have service departments for? :scratch:

[cblood™]

[quote=cblood™;207330]



well Clint i just worked on a ambulance today but its the truck front end with a ambulance rear its Truckee's so far all I've heard from them is its awesome and there looking at getting some more,
they just barley came out with it 2 months ago so the one before saying the turbo blew in it is BS, only major issue i have seen with the 6.4's has been the radiators.

and i've sen plenty of 6.4's come in with 15+ its all in the axle ratios

yeah, and which turbo is blowing anyway's huh?

[CashMoney]

I agree they all have probs, my big thing is that if they are going to stand behind something when they know they got a problem and extend the warrenty on the problem part atleast till they get problem fixed. Thats what GM did with the injector situation on the first gen dmax's (LB7 engine 01-04)

[Dirty Harry]

hmmm wonder why chevy, and dodge even have service departments for? :scratch:

You must have missed the part where I said "all of the new trucks are having problems with the added emissions controls. "

[DBXJ]

[quote=DBXJ;207381]

yeah, and which turbo is blowing anyway's huh?





neither one blew,
I'll say it again the post before stating the turbo blew in the ambulance is BS since the ambulance version (truck cab ambulance rear) came out 2 month ago there will not be a van version with the 6.4 but there are talks of a twin turbo V-6 4.9 diesel same one there talking about for the f-150

[david]

You must have missed the part where I said "all of the new trucks are having problems with the added emissions controls. "

bingo. i dont know if you notice the people in front of reno dodge and carson dodge picketing about the 07 and 08 dodge diesels are lemmons reno dodge stole my truck. well the tail of the story is a woman from fallon bought a truck from us and it has been back to are service a few times with the same problem and it has to to with the added emissions in the 07 and 08 trucks plugging the cat. and ultamately smoken the turbo . well we have repaired her truck under warranty on all ecasions and provided rental for her.well chrysler has agread to buy back the truck at a prorated price cause she has 30k+ miles on the truck or trade her into a brand new truck and she declined syaing she wants the trucks value plus all her payments made with intrest and the money it cost her for the temp empl. she hire to picket .

[CashMoney]

bingo. i dont know if you notice the people in front of reno dodge and carson dodge picketing about the 07 and 08 dodge diesels are lemmons reno dodge stole my truck. well the tail of the story is a woman from fallon bought a truck from us and it has been back to are service a few times with the same problem and it has to to with the added emissions in the 07 and 08 trucks plugging the cat. and ultamately smoken the turbo . well we have repaired her truck under warranty on all ecasions and provided rental for her.well chrysler has agread to buy back the truck at a prorated price cause she has 30k+ miles on the truck or trade her into a brand new truck and she declined syaing she wants the trucks value plus all her payments made with intrest and the money it cost her for the temp empl. she hire to picket .

wow she is an idiot, you guys are giving her a good deal plus starting with a brand new truck you get some of the value back you lose with age. I hate some people they are so stupid. Its like a sticker I saw on the back of a guys ford today : To bad ignorance isn't painfull.

[david]

wow she is an idiot, you guys are giving her a good deal plus starting with a brand new truck you get some of the value back you lose with age. I hate some people they are so stupid. Its like a sticker I saw on the back of a guys ford today : To bad ignorance isn't painfull.

her lawyer spilt the beans and had mentioned that she could get a killer deal out of state on a new truck and if all worked out she would pocket 10k

[cblood™]

You must have missed the part where I said "all of the new trucks are having problems with the added emissions controls. "

sorry did miss that, but didn't miss the Ford bashing :thumbsup:

[cblood™]

[quote=cblood™;207397]





neither one blew,
I'll say it again the post before stating the turbo blew in the ambulance is BS since the ambulance version (truck cab ambulance rear) came out 2 month ago there will not be a van version with the 6.4 but there are talks of a twin turbo V-6 4.9 diesel same one there talking about for the f-150

I know it didn't I was joking ;)

[cblood™]

bingo. i dont know if you notice the people in front of reno dodge and carson dodge picketing about the 07 and 08 dodge diesels are lemmons reno dodge stole my truck. well the tail of the story is a woman from fallon bought a truck from us and it has been back to are service a few times with the same problem and it has to to with the added emissions in the 07 and 08 trucks plugging the cat. and ultamately smoken the turbo . well we have repaired her truck under warranty on all ecasions and provided rental for her.well chrysler has agread to buy back the truck at a prorated price cause she has 30k+ miles on the truck or trade her into a brand new truck and she declined syaing she wants the trucks value plus all her payments made with intrest and the money it cost her for the temp empl. she hire to picket .

so Dodge is where the 03-04 6.0 was back then. That sucks :(

[CashMoney]

her lawyer spilt the beans and had mentioned that she could get a killer deal out of state on a new truck and if all worked out she would pocket 10k

haha more like he could pocket 10k, she's dumb if she thinks she's goign to pocket that kinda money

[david]

haha more like he could pocket 10k, she's dumb if she thinks she's goign to pocket that kinda money

hes the one who dropped the ball so he screwed him self

[CashMoney]

hes the one who dropped the ball so he screwed him self

I hope they don't get **** now :D

[WILLD420]

Saw those clowns picketing the other day. The wife asked me what it was all about and I told her there have been some pretty big issues with the new Dodge diesel's. Just the thing's I've read, no personal experience.

She said what I think to myself all the time. I'd be mad as hell if I paid 50K for a new diesel truck and it was in the shop for a turbo/dpf and re-flash before 30K miles. I've read of some guys that are only getting 7-10K out of a DPF and turbo. Ebay is flooded with the turbo's, so there has to be some merit to the claims.

Growing pains are one thing, this b.s. about a new truck having all these problems is the manufacturers fault. If the product wasn't ready, they should have done something different. There is a reason some manufacturers, ie Toyota, haven't brought a diesel truck to the market yet. I'm sure there is more to it, but one of the reasons according to what i've read, is that they know there were bugs to be worked out and they would rather delay the introduction a year or two, than risk their reputation on technology that would bring their name down into the mud.

Maybe it's b.s. but I always thought your reputation was everything in this world. Especially if you manufacture a product and plan to be #1 in the game.

Dunno, I've been told I expect too much of people and products so maybe that's the case.

[TwinStick]

You know, when you aren't shopping for a truck you really miss all the fun that goes with it. :D Sorry to hear about all the problems with all the trucks.

[CashMoney]

Heres the thing about DPF's people are going to be having problems with them prematurely if the truck is allowed to idle a lot, and drive around unloaded a lot. They will build up ash after many regen cycles and if not properly cleaned, will plug up and break crap. I wonder how many of these people having problems with them is partially their fault.

[DBXJ]

You know, when you aren't shopping for a truck you really miss all the fun that goes with it. :D Sorry to hear about all the problems with all the trucks.


Dunno with the economy being in the gutter its a friggen war zone in a lot i work at a dealership and i don't dare walk through the lot,

i can walk through in my blue all dirty and such and be blindsided by a couple salesmen then ambushed by two more and after evading them, then i'm cought by a third in a tactical sales pitch never took me a hour to get through there before.....still fun to mess with them though

[david]

Heres the thing about DPF's people are going to be having problems with them prematurely if the truck is allowed to idle a lot, and drive around unloaded a lot. They will build up ash after many regen cycles and if not properly cleaned, will plug up and break crap. I wonder how many of these people having problems with them is partially their fault.

its not just going to be the demestic pickups thats having problems its also going to be the industrial rigs too

[CashMoney]

its not just going to be the demestic pickups thats having problems its also going to be the industrial rigs too

The industrial ones already are, Peterbilt has been doing a ton of DPF cleanings for the reason's I mentioned and has been replacing a ton of them too. The only reason we haven't had any problems with the ones we own yet is we won't let them idle long like that and the trucks that have the DPF's are usually running with 100,000#'s or more behind them so they are getting the heat required to not have to regen in the first place.


What I don't get is people are freaking retarded, idling a diesel (other than cooling the turbo down) is the worst thing you can do to the engine in the first place.

[WILLD420]

I wonder the same thing. The old 6.2 chevy's were that way. You REALLY needed to take them out and run them like you hated them once in awhile. All of them I ever used that were worked hard, ran just fine. The ones that were babied around always blew up. A lot of that was driver inattention too, but there are a lot more engines that have been rebuilt because of driving styles that carboned them up, than ones that needed fixing because they were worked too hard.

You dealer guys will appreciate this, my friend used to work at Toyota. He'd get Tacomas with low power and overheating complaints. They would throw a couple bottles of injector cleaner in the tank. Drive it up and down the freeway like they stole it for about 20 minutes, bring it into the shop red hot and fill a big gulp cup with tap water. Stick it in park/neutral, pull the brake booster hose and have someone hammer down holding it on the rev limiter. Take their thumb off the vacuum hose and stick it all the way to the bottom of the big gulp.

Lot's of smoke and steam..... Take it back out on the freeway and run it on the rev limiter for several shifts, then take it back to the owner. No more overheating, pinging and a lot more power...

Did I mention that most of those owners were middle aged females? Poor trucks never saw more than 1/4 throttle for 60K miles till they were almost plugged solid with carbon and crap.

[DBXJ]

What I don't get is people are freaking retarded, idling a diesel (other than cooling the turbo down) is the worst thing you can do to the engine in the first place.


thats the #1 problem with the 6.0 PSD try and explain it to a customer and they don't listen "Carbon is a EGR's worst enemy and what is the majority of diesel exhaust you let them idle and they clog the EGR " and do they listen no while the ones that do we only ever see them in for oil changes and regular service tell them drive the SOB once in a while like you stole it and keep you services up and you wont have a problem and they rarely do after that

the 6.0 with out all the emissions was a great motor used in industrial for a while before going to public use with the emission system and thats when the issues started

[CashMoney]

its also hard on the bearings, they are made to be ran with the motor under a load. people are stupid thats why I like dogs.

[david]

its also hard on the bearings, they are made to be ran with the motor under a load. people are stupid thats why I like dogs.

also they dont warm there engines up they start em up and head strait to starbucks and back home without the engine gettin warm

[poor boy pulling]

thats the #1 problem with the 6.0 PSD try and explain it to a customer and they don't listen "Carbon is a EGR's worst enemy and what is the majority of diesel exhaust you let them idle and they clog the EGR " and do they listen no while the ones that do we only ever see them in for oil changes and regular service tell them drive the SOB once in a while like you stole it and keep you services up and you wont have a problem and they rarely do after that

the 6.0 with out all the emissions was a great motor used in industrial for a while before going to public use with the emission system and thats when the issues started

thats why my dodge runs so good, and the tranny doesnt:laugh2:

[jdhouk]

your gett'n rid of the nissian that we ordered the hankooks for....dam u spent a ton on those new...you should wear them out then buy a dodge...6spd with the 5.9....

[pjpunk]

FYI ... my father has an 04 Chevy Crew Cab Duramax w/the Allison tranny and w/the 6' bed.

He has a 6" lift, 35" tires ... he's also done some other mods ... Exhaust is 3" all the way and he's used a reprogrammer, plus cold air intake, etc ... the works ... he's retired, what do you expect? He wanted it to be his last truck.

Towing about 10k worth of trailer and car he set the cruise control @ 75 mph and we never noticed the weight over Donner Pass going east. He even got pissed @ traffic on a steep climb and punched it to 95 - uphill - did not balk.

oh, and he can burn his 35" tires, plus has a front and rear locker and gets 18-22 mpg.

I won't bash the dodge or ford, because they're good, but I prefer the chevy.

[CashMoney]

FYI ... my father has an 04 Chevy Crew Cab Duramax w/the Allison tranny and w/the 6' bed.

He has a 6" lift, 35" tires ... he's also done some other mods ... Exhaust is 3" all the way and he's used a reprogrammer, plus cold air intake, etc ... the works ... he's retired, what do you expect? He wanted it to be his last truck.

Towing about 10k worth of trailer and car he set the cruise control @ 75 mph and we never noticed the weight over Donner Pass going east. He even got pissed @ traffic on a steep climb and punched it to 95 - uphill - did not balk.

oh, and he can burn his 35" tires, plus has a front and rear locker and gets 18-22 mpg.

I won't bash the dodge or ford, because they're good, but I prefer the chevy.
just a heads up with a programmer and a decent load it will end up smoking the trans eventually. You must mean 4" exhaust 3" is stock for those trucks.

[pjpunk]

just a heads up with a programmer and a decent load it will end up smoking the trans eventually. You must mean 4" exhaust 3" is stock for those trucks.

I do mean a 4" ... not going to pretend I know all he's done w/it.

as for the tranny being smoked ... he has temperature gauges ... those after-market ones on the front left post ... he makes sure things don't get to that point.

[poor boy pulling]

I do mean a 4" ... not going to pretend I know all he's done w/it.

as for the tranny being smoked ... he has temperature gauges ... those after-market ones on the front left post ... he makes sure things don't get to that point.

just because its not getting hot doesnt mean its not damaging the tranny. ask me how i know

[CashMoney]

I do mean a 4" ... not going to pretend I know all he's done w/it.

as for the tranny being smoked ... he has temperature gauges ... those after-market ones on the front left post ... he makes sure things don't get to that point.

trust me i know the allisons in the duramax's and what they can handle...it will be smoked if towing with a programmer

[pjpunk]

just because its not getting hot doesnt mean its not damaging the tranny. ask me how i know

trust me i know the allisons in the duramax's and what they can handle...it will be smoked if towing with a programmer

I'll have to take your word for it ... not going to pretend I have a vast array of knowledge ... my experience is riding shotgun.

But, for the record, he is not towing on a regular basis ... but he has this beast of a truck ... and if something needs to be towed, he does the towing - but it's rare.

[CashMoney]

I'll have to take your word for it ... not going to pretend I have a vast array of knowledge ... my experience is riding shotgun.

But, for the record, he is not towing on a regular basis ... but he has this beast of a truck ... and if something needs to be towed, he does the towing - but it's rare.

jus tell him to not tow with the programmer on, and not more than a 75hp tune and it will probably last a long time before the clutch's start gettin burnt

[pjpunk]

jus tell him to not tow with the programmer on, and not more than a 75hp tune and it will probably last a long time before the clutch's start gettin burnt

Will do, thanks for the heads up!

[cblood™]

ha ha the torqure shift pwns the allison :laugh2: but lets not talk about the 4r 100 :nono: