truck plans

[Jagermiester]

I know right away everyone is going to solid axles are bad or they wont work. But please give me opinions and advice to help make this truck work. I was big into rockcrawling and have pics of my old jimmy in here but I am switching over to a faster sport.

I am starting w/ a 1979 GMC Sierra k1500
388 stroker (soon to be tpi)
t350 to 203 hoping to swap to a t400/241 for more strength and less weight
will be running a 78 gm 60 front with 4.88's and a detroit. I am going to ditch the 1 ton brakes and swap to 3/4 ton brakes and a smaller bracket for the calipers. I will be running a 91 dodge d60hd ff in the rear with 4.88's and a spool. Will also have chevy 3/4 ton disc brakes. I am planning for either alcan or deaver progressive rate LEAF springs in the front. 52" long (8" longer than stock) and netting between 7 and 9" of lift. Also plan to run either the new bilstien black hawk 9300 series race shocksalong w/ air bumps. Crossover steering also. The rear will also be deaver or alcan progressice rate leaf springs. They will be 63" (off the rear of an 88-98 2wd chevy) with an ORD shackle flip also netting between 7 to 9" of lift. Will probably run bilstien 7100 series reservoir shocks along w/ air bumps in the rear. 1 or 2" bodylift possibly (already there but I might remove it)
8 point cage in the cab tied to a bed cage as well as an engine compartment cage.

Questions I have is will this work. I am not trying to build a competition vehicle. I want it to handle abuse high speed in the desert though. I also want it to survive the vegas to reno run next year. The truck will see light on road duties as well as truck pulls 3 or 4 times a year.
Should I look into dual or triple bypass shocks for the front instead of the bilstiens?
Anything else I should do?

any opinions or critiques. Please dont tell me you cant do a solid axle or to swap to coilovers. Niether are going to happen.

[Dirty Harry]

I won't tell you to ditch the leaves or solid axle, and I won't tell you that I know everything about going fast in the desert. A couple of things stand out to me from your post.

You are on the right track by spending the bulk of your budget on quality springs and shocks and air bumps. I used to think that a shock was a shock but have learned differently since then. You do realize, however, that the Black Hawks run $2200 each right? I would think that some of that money could be spent elsewhere but perhaps they are worth the cost, I haven't used them.

Downgrading to smaller brakes does not make sense to me if you are running at high speeds. I'd rather use 17" wheels than 3/4 ton brakes if fitment is your concern.

Your lifted height seems WAY high for a desert truck. Most of those trucks seem to run low lifts with bulged fenders for clearance. I would try and keep the lift down to under 4" to keep the COG lower.

If you are going to be running at high speeds in 4WD I don't think that a Detroit in the front would be the best choice, I would prefer a limited slip for lighter steering.

[Denis]

I'd run open front and a selectable locker in the rear.

[Baja or Bust]

Id put a spool in the back and run a open diff in the front because if u run the front diff locked up you wont beable to turn and thats not good at high speeds:no:

[J.J.]

SELL THE CHEVY AND BUY A FAWKING RANGER!!!!
http://camburg.com/images/CamburgEDGE-Racetruck/BajaTest/edge2.jpg

[J.J.]

I know right away everyone is going to solid axles are bad or they wont work. But please give me opinions and advice to help make this truck work. I was big into rockcrawling and have pics of my old jimmy in here but I am switching over to a faster sport.

I am starting w/ a 1979 GMC Sierra k1500
388 stroker (soon to be tpi)
t350 to 203 hoping to swap to a t400/241 for more strength and less weight
will be running a 78 gm 60 front with 4.88's and a detroit. I am going to ditch the 1 ton brakes and swap to 3/4 ton brakes and a smaller bracket for the calipers. I will be running a 91 dodge d60hd ff in the rear with 4.88's and a spool. Will also have chevy 3/4 ton disc brakes. I am planning for either alcan or deaver progressive rate LEAF springs in the front. 52" long (8" longer than stock) and netting between 7 and 9" of lift. Also plan to run either the new bilstien black hawk 9300 series race shocksalong w/ air bumps. Crossover steering also. The rear will also be deaver or alcan progressice rate leaf springs. They will be 63" (off the rear of an 88-98 2wd chevy) with an ORD shackle flip also netting between 7 to 9" of lift. Will probably run bilstien 7100 series reservoir shocks along w/ air bumps in the rear. 1 or 2" bodylift possibly (already there but I might remove it)
8 point cage in the cab tied to a bed cage as well as an engine compartment cage.

Questions I have is will this work. I am not trying to build a competition vehicle. I want it to handle abuse high speed in the desert though. I also want it to survive the vegas to reno run next year. The truck will see light on road duties as well as truck pulls 3 or 4 times a year.
Should I look into dual or triple bypass shocks for the front instead of the bilstiens?
Anything else I should do?

any opinions or critiques. Please dont tell me you cant do a solid axle or to swap to coilovers. Niether are going to happen.


you are planning some seriously hardcore **** for a truck that's not for competition. you say you won't run coilovers, but you want blackhawks or triple-bypass shocks? :eek: triple-bypasses run around $1100 A PIECE. a PAIR of coil-overs WITH springs are around the same price.

sell the chevy and get a 2wd truck. i say, buy a ranger. or even a toyota mini for that matter. it would be so much easier. there are SO many parts out there for them: http://www.chaosfab.com http://www.camburg.com http://www.giantmotorsports.com http://www.kartek.com

if you are that heart-set on building the 4x4 chevy, here's some ideas. radius-arms in the front with coil-overs. deavers or nationals in the rear with flipped shackles. shocks, go with fox. a little cheaper than the rest and are still really good shocks. fiberglass fenders are a MUST. look here, i think they have chevy stuff. http://www.glassworksunlimited.com and like bajaorbust said, spool in the rear, open front. :thumbsup:

[BBOffroad]

Well I may not have the room to talk and im not jumping on anybodies toes, and dont get me wrong im definitely a ranger guy, but I say for a desert truck it needs to stay low, soft and if possible one purpose. Instead of dumping the chevy just put some I beams on it, its too hard to get a lot of travel out of a-arms or straight axle. By putting some legthened 4x4 beams off a bronco or f-250 you can still use 4x, but you need to get coilovers, for the back national springs is a lot better than deavers they are over priced, for fiberglass go with fiberwerx, Jason will get you what you need, if you want beams call chad at mcneil off-road, he can make them work. You seem like a guy that loves his chevy so check out robby gordons silver prerunner its a chevy wth beams and probably the cleanist out there. I wish you luck on your decision I know its tuff.


you are planning some seriously hardcore **** for a truck that's not for competition. you say you won't run coilovers, but you want blackhawks or triple-bypass shocks? :eek: triple-bypasses reun around $1100. coil-overs WITH springs are around the same price.

sell the chevy and get a 2wd truck. i say, buy a ranger. or even a toyota mini for that matter. it would be so much easier. there are SO many parts out there for them: http://www.chaosfab.com http://www.camburg.com http://www.giantmotorsports.com http://www.kartek.com

if you are that heart-set on building the 4x4 chevy, here's some ideas. radius-arms in the front with coil-overs. deavers or nationals in the rear with flipped shackles. shocks, go with fox. a little cheaper than the rest and are still really good shocks. fiberglass fenders are a MUST. look here, i think they have chevy stuff. http://www.glassworksunlimited.com and like bajaorbust said, spool in the rear, open front. :thumbsup:

[J.J.]

yeah, rangers are the ****!!! wish i still had mine :(

'beams on a chevy would be cool, if you can fab it all yourself. if he has a shop do it for him, it's gonna take alot of $$$$. i still think selling the chevy and buying a ranger is the best idea. you can find them cheap and can put a forkin' V8 in 'em!!!plus, it is SO much easier to just bolt stuff on, rather than fab **** up.

$.02

[Baja or Bust]

I have a 96 Ranger the motor is done but ill sell it for a good price

[Dirty Harry]

any opinions or critiques. Please dont tell me you cant do a solid axle or to swap to coilovers. Niether are going to happen.

I don't think that people are reading your whole post. :hammerhea

[J.J.]

I don't think that people are reading your whole post. :hammerhea

oh, i read it all. he just needs to look at all of his options before totally making up his mind on things like the shocks and solid axle.

[Baja or Bust]

If your really going to buy the black hawk 9300 series race shock i would just do coil over in the front its going the be cheaper then getting those shocks. But if you dont want to go that way i would run a set of bypass kings all the way around there a good shock. If u really want to run the vegas to reno race i think coil over would be the better way to go .

[Jagermiester]

Dirty HArry: I didnt know the price on the blackhawks when I mentioned them as a possibility. I couldnt find it anywhere. At 2200 apiece it deffinetly takes the out of the picture. The reason for the swap from 1 ton to 3/4 ton brakes ha nothing to do w/ clearance. I was running 17's and am down to 16's at this time. I will probably go back to 17's though. The reason for this is wieght. I know its not that much wieght but I have read that you want as little unsprung wieght as possible (axles, wheels, tires) to prevent as much breakage as possible when jumping and running high speeds. I am not worried about the 3/4 ton brakes not being enough as I will be using high quality rotors and pads as well as the fact that I have swapped to hydroboost brakes as oppsed to vaccum assist. This stopped the 42's on my jimmy just fine on the road at 65 to 70 so I am sure it wont have any issues with 37's. I hope.
As for the lft. This is also based on tire size. I know 9" might be pushing it but I think i should be ok around 7" and somee fiber glass to bring down the upper wieght. And you are deffinetely right on the detroit for the front. I may end up putting in a selectable (ARB or Electrac) but I will run in 2wd except when 4wd would be needed. I am no expert but I think this should work.



Hardbody: I will not sell the truck and get a smaller one as this truck will also serve for the truck pulls and to help friends when they get stuck. As well as the occasional rocks (I will never get that out of my blood). I know I could build a seperate truck for these things but the Ideaa is to have one truck that can do most of them. The main use of this truck will be the desert but alot of use in the truck pulls. (also I really dont like fords even though rangers are bad ass when built) Now maybe if I could get a mid 90's ranger or maybe t100 extended cab and swap a 302 or tpi 350 into them through my 60 in the rear and really beef up the drivetrain I could still possibly do the truckpulls with one of them. HMMMMMMMMM Something to think about I guess.
The triple and dual bypass shocks were a question. I am trying to get an opinion on what I would need to use assuming I went SFA. So which could I use and which would be a waste.

Also were can I get some info on radius arms. I could look into that and possibly some coilovers. Need more info on this stuff though.


BBOFFROAD: I will check out robby gordons truck and will check into doing I beams too. 4wd is a must though based on the truck pulls. And the soft is fine b/c I can block the rear for the truck pulls o that would allow the truck to stay soft for the desert yet not to soft for the pulls.



BAJAORBUST How much for that 96 ranger and is it an extended cab?



So the blackhawks are out and now I am thinking some kid of bypass or really nice shock (this is keeping the SFA)

Radius arms and coilovers (SFA)

I beams and coilovers (What do I do for a front diff?)

Or a v8 toy or ranger. Do you think this could work in the pulls. Would be some nice wieght in the front to hold it down for the pulls but wont that make me nose heavy when I jump? PLease continue helping me. Thanks.

[Jagermiester]

Now I am thinking and possibly going to change my plans. How well would an extended radius arm w/ coilovers work. Let ma make sure I understand this though.

It would require me too Build a crossmember (could make it one w/ tcase new crossmember) to mount the radius arms to the frame w/ hiems (I assume). Then I would need a way to mount the radius arms to the axle (this is a solid mount correct does not pivot or rotate tlike the mount at the fram crossmember). It would be one on each side. Then I would just put coilovers on each side. How does this compare to doing a full 4 link or 3 link. B/c this is basically a 2 link correct. How will this flex? Say in the rocks? how will ot handle jumps better than leafs but not as well as say I beams. Will standard crossover steering work. Maybe have to use hiems intead of TRE's. This would clean up my axle too. I would just need a coilover mount and radius arm mount on each side correct? Does it matter how long the arms are and how far back on the frame thhey are mounted? This is new to me so please help.


How do you guys think this would work. I will take a GM 60 shave it clean (unless I can find a ford 60 with the cast c's for radius arms) Get cage offroads radius arms along w/ thier SAS bracket (for installing an axle w/o the cast c's for radius arms) I will then rn 12 - 16" travel fox 2.5" coilovers. Would this work. How do you design the geometry for this suspension. Do i just set the axle where I want it bolt the radius arms to it. Then set the coilovers to the ride hieght I want bolt them up. And see from there were to pt the frame crossmember for the radius arms or am I looing at this all wrong. Here is the cage arms so you guys know what I am talking about.

http://www.cageoffroad.com/i//Radius_arms_for_66-79_Ford_for_web.JPG

I wouldnt use the frame mounts they give I would make a crossmember.
Also here is the part they show for doing a SAS on an axle w/o the cast c's can comeone explain it to me.
http://www.cageoffroad.com/i//tn_SAS_axle_bracket.JPG

and the links

http://www.cageoffroad.com/catalog/item/1241774/724575.htm
http://www.cageoffroad.com/page/page/2867657.htm

[Dirty Harry]

The reason for the swap from 1 ton to 3/4 ton brakes ha nothing to do w/ clearance. I was running 17's and am down to 16's at this time. I will probably go back to 17's though. The reason for this is wieght. I know its not that much wieght but I have read that you want as little unsprung wieght as possible (axles, wheels, tires) to prevent as much breakage as possible when jumping and running high speeds. I am not worried about the 3/4 ton brakes not being enough as I will be using high quality rotors and pads as well as the fact that I have swapped to hydroboost brakes as oppsed to vaccum assist. This stopped the 42's on my jimmy just fine on the road at 65 to 70 so I am sure it wont have any issues with 37's. I hope.


I understand your concern about unsprung weight and it is a valid one, but running Dana 60s front and rear is going to kill your unsprung weight regardless of what brakes you are running and brakes are one thing I like to overdo. Stopping 42s from a freeway speed does tax the brake system, but repeatedly speeding up and slowing down can overwork your brakes and cause them to fade over time.





It would require me too Build a crossmember (could make it one w/ tcase new crossmember) to mount the radius arms to the frame w/ hiems (I assume). Then I would need a way to mount the radius arms to the axle (this is a solid mount correct does not pivot or rotate tlike the mount at the fram crossmember). It would be one on each side. Then I would just put coilovers on each side. How does this compare to doing a full 4 link or 3 link. B/c this is basically a 2 link correct. How will this flex? Say in the rocks? how will ot handle jumps better than leafs but not as well as say I beams. Will standard crossover steering work. Maybe have to use hiems intead of TRE's. This would clean up my axle too. I would just need a coilover mount and radius arm mount on each side correct? Does it matter how long the arms are and how far back on the frame thhey are mounted? This is new to me so please help.

Radius arms are kind of like a non-triangulated four link. In fact, a lot of the TJ long arm kits actually use radius arms. It will not necessarily flex as well as a true four link or three link, but radius arms are easier to set up and deliver a natural sway bar effect. In addition to the radius arms you need to fabricate the coilover mounts (as stout as possible) and a panhard bar (as long and flat as possible). The longer the arms, the more travel they will offer and the less the caster will change throughout the wheel travel. They can be made to work good in the rocks too, just look at all the Early Broncos out there.


How do you guys think this would work. I will take a GM 60 shave it clean (unless I can find a ford 60 with the cast c's for radius arms) Get cage offroads radius arms along w/ thier SAS bracket (for installing an axle w/o the cast c's for radius arms) I will then rn 12 - 16" travel fox 2.5" coilovers. Would this work. How do you design the geometry for this suspension. Do i just set the axle where I want it bolt the radius arms to it. Then set the coilovers to the ride hieght I want bolt them up. And see from there were to pt the frame crossmember for the radius arms or am I looing at this all wrong. Here is the cage arms so you guys know what I am talking about.


I believe that all Ford Dana 60s (except the '05 and up Super Dutys) came with leaf springs, only the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton used radius arms (with Dana 44s). They also have a driver side drop, unlike your Chevy axle. Not sure what t-case you have but you could run a NP241 with a driver side drop, they weigh a lot less than the NP 203 and 205 also.

Radius arms are one of the easier suspensions to set up. As you said, you want to measure where the axle will be at ride height and set the caster with the axle brackets. Measure throught the suspension cycle to set up the panhard bar, steering, and coilovers to make sure that nothing binds and mount the radius arms to set the axle location. Just tack everything together when you are doing it and plan to do it a few times to get things right before you burn them in. ;)

[Jagermiester]

I understand your concern about unsprung weight and it is a valid one, but running Dana 60s front and rear is going to kill your unsprung weight regardless of what brakes you are running and brakes are one thing I like to overdo. Stopping 42s from a freeway speed does tax the brake system, but repeatedly speeding up and slowing down can overwork your brakes and cause them to fade over time.



I didnt think about the fade on the rotors and pads due to the quick stop and go. But I think they will survive with routine changes and some nice rotors, pads, and fluids. But if it doesnt it is ssimple to change back. Will keep an eye on those once I get the truck on the road.


Radius arms are kind of like a non-triangulated four link. In fact, a lot of the TJ long arm kits actually use radius arms. It will not necessarily flex as well as a true four link or three link, but radius arms are easier to set up and deliver a natural sway bar effect. In addition to the radius arms you need to fabricate the coilover mounts (as stout as possible) and a panhard bar (as long and flat as possible). The longer the arms, the more travel they will offer and the less the caster will change throughout the wheel travel. They can be made to work good in the rocks too, just look at all the Early Broncos out there

I actually was just lookng at a bumch oe EB's to get ideas. Now a panhard rod is basically just to control foward and aft movement of an axle when using coils or coilovers correct? I am not quite sure on this so I will probably head over to pirate4x4. com for some research. Also a panhard rod would be set up the same (length and angle wise) for rocks and desert running right? And how do I find out how to do that?


I believe that all Ford Dana 60s (except the '05 and up Super Dutys) came with leaf springs, only the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton used radius arms (with Dana 44s). They also have a driver side drop, unlike your Chevy axle. Not sure what t-case you have but you could run a NP241 with a driver side drop, they weigh a lot less than the NP 203 and 205 also.

Radius arms are one of the easier suspensions to set up. As you said, you want to measure where the axle will be at ride height and set the caster with the axle brackets. Measure throught the suspension cycle to set up the panhard bar, steering, and coilovers to make sure that nothing binds and mount the radius arms to set the axle location. Just tack everything together when you are doing it and plan to do it a few times to get things right before you burn them in.


I already figured on swapping to a 241 eventually due to the wieght savings over my present 203. I didnt know all ford 60's came with leafs. I thought 78-79's had coils. If this is so how would I connect the radius arms to my gm 60. Do those brackets shown earlier make sense. Maybe I will have to call cage offroad and ask them. Thanks for the input.

[Denis]

Now a panhard rod is basically just to control foward and aft movement of an axle when using coils or coilovers correct? I am not quite sure on this so I will probably head over to pirate4x4. com for some research. Also a panhard rod would be set up the same (length and angle wise) for rocks and desert running right? And how do I find out how to do that?

Panhard bar controls lateral movement of the axle. Ideally, it's set up to be of the same length and same angle as steering drag link, to eliminate bump steer.

[Jagermiester]

I just read tha on pirate. so that basically means from the drivers side frame to the passenger side axle same bends and angle ans the draglink. Hiems on both ends right. This keeps it from moving side to side while allowing it up and down. Got it. Thanks. one hurdle out of the way.

[Denis]

so that basically means from the drivers side frame to the passenger side axle same bends and angle ans the draglink. Hiems on both ends right. This keeps it from moving side to side while allowing it up and down. Got it. Thanks. one hurdle out of the way.

Doesn't have to have the same bends as the drag link, as long as they are parallel. Bends in the panhard bar are often there to clear suspension/steering components, bends in the drag link help position the rod ends in the center of their range of motion, so they don't bind at full droop.
As long as virtual lines drawn through drag link and panhard bar pivot points are parallel.

Doesn't have to have heims, actually I prefer spherical joints, such as Rubicon Express, Currie Jonny Joints or Summit Machine.

[Jagermiester]

Will tre's hold up in the graglink when running in the desert or should I use spherical joints there too. Now I have to go look up spherical joints.

[Sauce]

give sam a call, he is a nice guy, knows his stuff and he sells a wide variety of fab parts at a good price (I.E. joints, tube, etc.).
Here is his contact info...
Samco Fabrication
572 Reactor Way #A4
Reno, NV 89502
775 856 4100

[Denis]

Will tre's hold up in the graglink when running in the desert or should I use spherical joints there too. Now I have to go look up spherical joints.

use rod ends or heims for steering. i've never seen anyone use spherical joints for steering, they are too big.

[Jagermiester]

Will probably stick w/ TRE's for steering then just to help w/ street manners and driveability. I will deffinately be in contact w/ a few of the fab shops on here. Gonna need advice and someone to tell me it wont work so I dont waste money. Plus I am new to this so I ahve a lot to learn.

[J.J.]

[QUOTE=Sauce]give sam a call, he is a nice guy, knows his stuff and he sells a wide variety of fab parts at a good price (I.E. joints, tube, etc.).

x2.......talk to samco, i think he can buid you a sweet dual-purpose truck :thumbsup?

wtf are "the pulls"? :scratch:

[Baja or Bust]

Its a ext-cab 96 ranger the motor is no good but ill let it go for like $1,500 if you want to come take a look at it ,its sitting on the side of samco watch out denis has had his eye on it :yes:

[Samco Fab]

A ton of stuff is being touched on here that is all good thoughts, but one thing that is a really important place to put your money is the shocks. Buy some Fox or King bypass shocks probably 3", and you can make 8" of wheel travel seem like 18" if you tune it right, regardless of what suspension design you choose. Good 3" bypass shocks are about $1000 each. I can also custom build you a set of 4" bypass shocks.

I also think that the solid axle would work awesome as a dual purpose rig, and the D60 would be ok. Unsprung weight is important, but the most important thing is the sprung to unsprung ratio. If you are doing tractor pulling, you probably have a Diesel. That will make that 60 like a d30 in a cherokee;) Dont get too caught up in big $$ braking systems, just dont slow down for it:D

If you have the $$ , link it and definitely cage it. Truck pulls and prerunning are hard on leaf springs. After a few custom sets of Deavers you might be pretty close to what you might spend on a basic link suspension.

I would also put a Detroit in the back and either an open, LSD or ARB front.

Look at the new Donahoe/Banks Super Duty race truck that we compete against, that thing is awesome, and mabye what you are looking for.

[Dirty Harry]

Dont get too caught up in big $$ braking systems, just dont slow down for it:D


I didn't suggest big $$ brakes, but I don't think that it makes sense to swap out the stock stuff for something smaller. :thefinger

You are the true authority around here though Sam. :bowdown:

[Samco Fab]

I didn't suggest big $$ brakes, but I don't think that it makes sense to swap out the stock stuff for something smaller. :thefinger

You are the true authority around here though Sam. :bowdown:

I just re read the swap to smaller brakes part, mabye he means pull the drum brakes and do the disc brake swap using 3/4 ton front calipers. That is a common brake swap to do for 14 bolts, it drops a bunch of weight off the rear axle, and has better braking than the stock drums. I just felt that he shouldn't spend a bunch of time or $$ on the brakes, that could be better spent somewhere else. The drum to disc in the back would be a good mod though.

Why not use a 14 bolt in the back?? Most rear 60's have 30 spline axles, a 14 bolt is the most beef for the $ and is a common Chevy part.

[Jagermiester]

As for what the pulls are I am refering to the truck pulls. I am doing these with a gas motor also not a diesel. It is a carbed 388 right now but will be TPI by the end of the summer.

I do not want a 14bolt for a few reasons. One it wieghs approximately 170 lbs more than a rear 60. Yes my 60 is only 30 spline but I am also only spinning 37's. A 14bolt is overkill. Also a 14 bolt has a about 2" less ground clearance than a 60 as well as the fact that a 60 has a smooth bottom as opposed to the bottom on a 14 bolt. I know this matter nothing in the sand but makes a huge difference in the rocks. Yes I could shave the 14 bolt as I did on my last build but with the added stress from jumping it I think it is better to just go with a 60. Also with the lesser amount of wieght it will be less wear on my leafs in the rear and shocks when getting air underneath my rear tires.

As for the swap it is swapping from drums to 3/4 ton discs in the rear. I was also debating swapping from 1 ton discs and brackets to 3/4 ton disc and custom brackets. (about 50 lbs saved). I know its not much but I thought it might help.

It will be caged. 8 point inside and tied into a bed cage. Not sure where to get it done. Probably be calling samco when it comes to that.

When it comes to the bypass shocks I know I brought them up but 1000 each is little high for what this truck is for. I was thinking about just settling on some 2.5" fox coilovers and either a small 2.5" bypass shock or possibly just a nice prerunning shock. Its not like this truck will be seeing jumps everyweekend. I just want it to survive the vegas to reno(and actually do alright) and to be able and go out and race around at sand mountain or just in the desert period.


Are you willing to take trades on the Ranger. Maybe a pretty sweet 79 chevy. Needs work but has potential. I will probably be driving up to Reno this weekend or early next week so I can check out Samco Fabrication. will check it out and maybe get back to you an purchasing it. Is it 2wd if so I am very interested.

[Samco Fab]

The 60 does have some valid points, but I could see you breaking the 30 spline axles if you use it like how you say you are. Class 8 trucks break 40 spline 4340 axles with 37's if they run them on a fast truck for too long (more than 4 or 6 races). You do have less horsepower and you arent planning on running that hard, but the 30 spline is a bunch smaller.

I would run the 35 splines just to be on the safe side. If you strip a 14 bolt housing they dont weigh much, it is all the really tough parts inside that makes it weigh a bunch... that's good weight. Mabye get 35 spline axles for the 60, but then you need to bore the spindles.

If it were me, I would run the leaf springs and spend the $$ on the 3" shocks. That would be the best $1000 per corner that you could spend, and you wouldn't have to sell them for a big loss and upgrade when you moved to the next level.

It sounds lame but a body lift may be your best option to get the tire clearance. The springs stay flatter, the weight stays lower and it works better. I would run mabye a 2" body lift , 1 or 2" suspension and clearance the fenders or run fiberglass. You can make sweet billet body lift pucks that eliminate the rubber mounts and look cool.

[Jagermiester]

So you are saying dith the radius arms and coilovers and run deaver or national leafs and some 3" bypass shocks. This would work and be rougher riding then the radius arms, coilovers, and some prerunner shocks.

[Samco Fab]

I think you could get it to ride really good with the leafs, you will probably go to the radius arms or a link setup in the future, but at least you will have awesome shocks to do it with in the future.

We run in a production class with all kinds of trucks and sport utility rigs of all makes and sizes. Some of the trucks are really fast. The only thing they have that makes them faster in the desert is the springs and shocks..no custom suspension anything, just springs and shocks. We even run stock front springs in our H2, we got 15th overall in the NV 1000 last year with our 8" of wheel travel. Shocks are the magic, of course you need to tune them to make them work. Wheel travel and horsepower mean less than a strong reliable suspenson with big well tuned shocks.

[Dirty Harry]

I do not want a 14bolt for a few reasons. One it wieghs approximately 170 lbs more than a rear 60. Yes my 60 is only 30 spline but I am also only spinning 37's. A 14bolt is overkill. Also a 14 bolt has a about 2" less ground clearance than a 60 as well as the fact that a 60 has a smooth bottom as opposed to the bottom on a 14 bolt. I know this matter nothing in the sand but makes a huge difference in the rocks. Yes I could shave the 14 bolt as I did on my last build but with the added stress from jumping it I think it is better to just go with a 60. Also with the lesser amount of wieght it will be less wear on my leafs in the rear and shocks when getting air underneath my rear tires.


I think that you are smart for making weight such a concern, especially unsprung weight. Less weight takes less power to move, less brakes to stop, and is all around easier on parts.

Do you already have the rear Dana 60? Why not run a 9" in the rear? They are light, can be made very strong for not much money (if you have the big bearing ends), and it is easy to add a truss or suspension mounts to the housing.

There was an old orange Blazer in last month's (February?) issue of Off-Road magazine that was super built and still ran solid axles front and rear. I'll see if I can dig up the issue and find more info on it. I think that it is similar to what you want.

[Denis]

I have a full-width 9" housing I was going to use, but I don't think I will. Let me know if you want it.

[Jagermiester]

Denis I appreciate the offer on the 9". But no thanks.

Dirty Harry I do already have the 60 HD. It is from a 91 dodge 2wd 3/4ton. The GF's dad gave it to me. The main reason for running the 60 is it is the lightest full floater. Why a full floater you ask. Well chevy 1/2 ton was the original Idea. But they are c clip axles and once one of those clips breaks. Nothing holds your wheel and axle shaft. A full floater is stonger plus it takes more of the abuse off the shafts themselves and puts it on the bearing and hub where it is better absorbed.

Samco I was already planning on having the spindles bored and the axle fitted w/ 35 spline axles. Or I might run it tillI break it then do that. So I guess maybe I should go back to my original idea of a set of 56" national springs upfront and spend some cash on some really nice bypass shocks. Can you tune these. And what is the price on some 2.5" or 3"? Also do I need single, dual, triple bypass. I dont have a clue so your help is appreciated

[Samco Fab]

I can tune the shocks, and I can show you how to fine tune the bypass adjusters.

[BBOffroad]

we put fox's 3.5, 5 tube bypasses on our truck havent been out to test them yet but they cost us 1400$ for 2, I think fox has better prices than king, I mean king has been around for a really long time and has there stuff together and brett is a great guy but john is a great guy too and I think the fox shocks work just a little better, so do some research, and there is nothing wrong with buying a used shock and rebuilding it, its really easy. And is that rear end a three piece, cause thats scary on the wide open silt beds

[Samco Fab]

I agree, Both Fox and King are great shocks. I have worked with both and, you can't really go wrong with either. I think right now, the Fox might be a better deal for the quality. The Fox are about the same price as the King pre run series, but the Fox are a little better quality. What shade of Blue do you like better:no: The King race series are a really top notch shock though, and I think you can get pretty good prices if you ask around a bit. I personally would not run the Sway a Way shocks, they have had some customer support issues in the past.

Where did you get 2 3.5" Fox 3 tube's for that price? That sounds pretty cheap!
What did you put them on? Do you race?

[BBOffroad]

I agree, Both Fox and King are great shocks. I have worked with both and, you can't really go wrong with either. I think right now, the Fox might be a better deal for the quality. The Fox are about the same price as the King pre run series, but the Fox are a little better quality. What shade of Blue do you like better:no: The King race series are a really top notch shock though, and I think you can get pretty good prices if you ask around a bit. I personally would not run the Sway a Way shocks, they have had some customer support issues in the past.

Where did you get 2 3.5" Fox 3 tube's for that price? That sounds pretty cheap!
What did you put them on? Do you race?

were building a class 7 open truck and have 3" fox coilovers and 3.5" 5 tube bypasses and 2.5 bumps all four corners, John Marking gave us a small sponsorship so we got really good prices. I put some pics of the project up on here so I think you can find them in my gallery. I think our first race with this truck will be terribles town 250.

[Samco Fab]

were building a class 7 open truck and have 3" fox coilovers and 3.5" 5 tube bypasses and 2.5 bumps all four corners, John Marking gave us a small sponsorship so we got really good prices. I put some pics of the project up on here so I think you can find them in my gallery. I think our first race with this truck will be terribles town 250.

That is an awesome 7 truck. What are some specs on that thing, I see you got Cone hubs, Fox shocks and are those 35x15" Project's? What do you think about the new rules for 7 open in BITD? Mabye we need a new thread...