If you guys need any help lemme know. If I remember right the worst part of the whole thing was just lifting the batteries in and pullin the fuse box up and out of the way to get them in.Originally Posted by thedevl
I would be more than happy to to that Free Of Charge for you Ted. Just let me know when.
"The dog don't like you planting stuff there. It's his backyard. If you're the only one who craps in something, you own it. Remember that."-I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
it's www.12voltguy.com
many people have this set up with dual batteries and no issues whatsoever. it was designed to be used with vehicle's electrical system.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. ... The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.
-- C. S. Lewis
3 simple and cheap parts needed in my post, no need to jack around with swapping wires or anything else every time you want to use it. Its not like you'd be running it long enough to build a sky scraper. How long does it take you to weld a quick field fix.
If you wanted to get elaborate you could add a few more parts and make it so it would work with the vehicle on and charging or off. I wouldn't weld on a vehicle with it's electrical system connected in and especially running though. That's just asking for trouble and likely more problems than you were trying to fix to begin with.
The NO contactor would effectively open up the 12 volt side of the circuit to your vehicle while welding on it. A simple switch wired in shunt to the contactor could be used to get your 12V back when you were ready to turn the ignition back on.
Cool deal Man! Will do.
Hard work good, Hard work fine, But first take care of head! Knowledge is everything!
Everything I see on that site looks to be rated for regular vehicle loads or a winch. I don't see anything on his site rated for the full load of 250A those welder specs give. Maybe I'm missing it, but everything there is only rated for a 100A continuous duty load, 200A Break, and between 300A to 600A surge only.
For a 250A welder the specs would have to be rated continuous for at least that much and slightly over.
I know they are using this for dual batteries, but these are setup to use a second battery as a back up. They aren't running the second battery in a series to run a 24 VDC welder. I agree with Ampdraw. The welder needs 250 amp continuos.
This kit only includes a kit to isolate the second battery. Once you flip that switch, if it's wired in a series, your running 24 VDC to your fuse box.
The only way around it would be to have two of these switches. One to isolate the primary battery from the vehicle and a second to isolate the second battery from the first.
In theory you would normally run with switch 1 closed to the primary battery.
When you wanted to weld, you would open switch one (disconnecting power from the battery to the vehicle), and close switch 2 to the secondary battery. If run in a series, this would connect the 2 batteries together and provide 24 VDC with lots of amps. You connect one welder clamp to the positive post on on battery, and the negative post on the other battery.
Last edited by FallonJeeper; August 12th, 2009 at 02:00 PM.
Flex? What's that? I don't need flex for muddin'.
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
- Albert Einstein
Are you going to stand up for somebody today, or just sit back and do nothing?
- Fallon Jeeper
Now someone is thinking and understanding to some level what I'm trying to explain.
If however you used 2 separate switches, you still have the problem of turning both on/off at exactly the same time. You could use a single DPDT 2 position switch, but, you would also be running the full load of 250A through the actual switch. I've never heard of a switch that wasn't huge and designed for large commercial applications that was even rated for 250A, you'd be talking something like a huge ugly knife switch to handle the load once the welder was operating.
That's where the contactors I suggested come into play. You can by small package contactors that are capable of handling some pretty massive loads, continuously and without the need to stop and let them cool. The contactor could be wired to just cycle automatically, or if you wanted you could put a switch in the coil circuit and turn them on/off at will. I'd just let them cycle automatically off the vehicles ignition switch.
I totally understand what you were explaining and would be a trick idea, but where the batteries will be there's not going to be much room left after. Also for his purpose and limited use he might as well just unhook the terminals and use the jumper that you have made up for the welder and hook it up. Its not something that will be getting used every wheeling trip out. Why add more parts to the equation that can fail when all you really need is one simple jumper wire when your batts are unhooked?
"The dog don't like you planting stuff there. It's his backyard. If you're the only one who craps in something, you own it. Remember that."-I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
That's pretty much what I thought in the end as well in a PM discussion with FallonJeeper right after I made my last post. It's not how I'd do it, but simple would be better for a person with out a lot of electronic background. Simple is easier to figure out and fix for such a person.
Even with the jumper cable type connection though I'd add either a battery quick disconnect, or even a breaker between the batteries and the vehicle electronics, you can buy either cheep at any auto parts store, the breaker would not need to be rated for the full 250A that the welder requires. Even with the ignition switched in the off position your still feeding power from the battery back to the computer. Sure would suck to try doing a weld fix in the field only to find out you fried your computer with 24V being sent to it. No welder on the market is going to fix that problem.
Still though, pulling a full 250A even through a jumper cable connection can make for some serious heat and possible problems. I'd certainly in the least make sure those cables would be bit into the battery posts as tight as you can get them. A loose connection with that kind of current could quickly cause things to melt, even things rated for the spec load.
need any fab work I can help out ted and ofcourse no charge for you. but we can make the boxes and use a trickle charger to keep them charged.
I spoke to their tech support on this because I started questioning in my mind those amperage ratings listed on their web site. According to their tech support rep this thing can potentially draw as much as 500 Amps if you're welding up to 3/4", so make sure all the wiring and any type of connectors you use is rated for up to 500A continuous duty.
Also worth mention here, which I didn't see noted on their web site, If you are using the gas tank with this welder it runs in negative ground, if you use this without the gas tank and just the flux core wire it then runs positive ground.
500A and the ability for this to switch between positive and negative polarity makes a pretty big difference. In that case I'd make sure everything that has anything to do with your vehicle electronics system is completely disconnected physically, both positive and negative.
A minimum of 4Ga wire or larger and as absolutely short as possible.
The most basic setup would be two battery boxes mounted to a board in the back of the TJ with two batteries, connected, with 4 GA battery terminal cable, with the cable connected to the positive on one battery and connected to the negative on the other battery. Note - this system would be independent of the vehicles electrical system. No chance of frying your rig, or draining the battery to nothing.
When you're ready to weld, you connect the clamps of the welder to the appropriate post, one open post + and - on each battery.
For charging you can disconnect the batteries from each other, either by way of a switch or physically disconnecting the cable and put them on a trickle charger. If you can find a 24 VDC charger, you could keep them connected. Load up your batteries the night before you go wheeling and charge them.
Make sure you have the battery boxes secure with good lids. You can get some good ones at RV parts stores. You wouldn't want 24 VDC at 720 AMPS bouncing around in the back of your TJ while wheeling.
Parts needed:
2 batteries. Same type preferred.
2 insulated battery boxes - $9 each - $18 total
1 4 GA universal battery cable - $8
Board and screws to mount the battery boxes. - Probably free if you have something lying around
That little welder looks great, I may learn to weld and get one like that and do a setup like I described above.
Last edited by FallonJeeper; August 13th, 2009 at 12:50 PM.
Flex? What's that? I don't need flex for muddin'.
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
- Albert Einstein
Are you going to stand up for somebody today, or just sit back and do nothing?
- Fallon Jeeper
you still have to disconnect the batterys in your rig if your going to weld on your own unit.
"The dog don't like you planting stuff there. It's his backyard. If you're the only one who craps in something, you own it. Remember that."-I don't understand the purpose of the line, "I don't need to drink to have fun." Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?
You guys are awesome, thanks a lot...
I finally got my second battery, now onto gathering parts for my dual set-up. I've got a red top and a yellow top. I plan to run Red as a staring/main battery, and yellow for winch/accessories, with an isolating relay between them.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. ... The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.
-- C. S. Lewis
not so with the premier power welder.
You're either on the bus or your're off the bus...
PLEASE PRAY FOR OBAMA : PSALMS 109.8
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