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Thread: Marn's '73 Wagoneer

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManNamedJed View Post
    Thanks for the detailed reply. I'd read that a 6" lift was necessary to run 33s. I'd rather not do that much of a lift. Its good to hear you made it work with 4".
    No problem, if you ever have questions just let me know. there are a number of FSJ guys locally who have a pretty decent knowledge base on these things. If you ever want to check mine out you're welcome to.

    Or hey, if you're in the market....everything is for sale at the right price...........

  2. #77
    TroubleShooter
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    You could probably run 33x10.5 with no rubbing and less lift. On my Jeepster I went from 33x12.5 to 33x10.5 on skinnier wheels and from severe rubbing to no rubbing at all.
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  3. #78
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    I really dont know about that....but then again I dont claim to know everything.

    I'm pretty dern positive that even with 4" and 33x10.50's the rear will rub severely unless cut.

  4. #79
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    new u joints in the rear shaft last night, the old ones were a little rough. not terrible, but given the silly driveline angles i like to keep these fairly fresh. Pumped all the old factory grease out of them and made sure it was all fresh new stuff.


  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    You could probably run 33x10.5 with no rubbing and less lift. On my Jeepster I went from 33x12.5 to 33x10.5 on skinnier wheels and from severe rubbing to no rubbing at all.
    The rear is the issue, if you put more backspace the tires will rub the springs, and they will tear up the the lip if you don't trim. It's actually not much and unless you have it pointed out not noticeable. I actually thought Marn had no trimming until it was pointed out. I've seen a few GW and Wags run 33x10.50s on 4" and they all have some trimming and work really well. I run 33x12.50 on 3" but I'm wide track so hard to compare. 31s should fit no problem without trimming though.
    1976 Jeep Cherokee 'S' w/t 'Susan'
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renodemona View Post
    The rear is the issue, if you put more backspace the tires will rub the springs, and they will tear up the the lip if you don't trim. It's actually not much and unless you have it pointed out not noticeable. I actually thought Marn had no trimming until it was pointed out. I've seen a few GW and Wags run 33x10.50s on 4" and they all have some trimming and work really well. I run 33x12.50 on 3" but I'm wide track so hard to compare. 31s should fit no problem without trimming though.

    you wide track guys have it made. 33's and no lift works.

  7. #82
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    just took the single most unsuccessful road trip ever in this thing, nearly 600 miles and nothing but trouble the entire trip.

    I'm about to drive it into a wall.

  8. The Following User Likes Dr. Marneaus's Post:

    Sierra Valley (May 2nd, 2016)

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
    just took the single most unsuccessful road trip ever in this thing, nearly 600 miles and nothing but trouble the entire trip.

    I'm about to drive it into a wall.
    What happened?

  10. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul123 View Post
    What happened?
    same crap I have been dealing with for years but hadn't reared its ugly head in a while

    basically when under heavy load (read: climbing hills at highway speed) it surges and sputters and chokes out but will idle fine and never die.

    fuel starvation or spark cutting out or something. I've tried to fix this time and time again but no luck. I'm determined to get it licked this time and am diving into a bunch of stuff to try and fix it.

    It it fought me all the way on a 600 mile road trip. Took me 8 hours to get home from Anderson valley CA

  11. #85
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    What color are your spark plugs?

  12. #86
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    a toasty reddish brown on one side, pretty light on the other. heat marks come maybe 1/3rd to 1/2 up the threads, so looks like it's running a little lean and the brown is from fuel additives.

    I redid the timing on monday because when i checked it all, it was not the way i had left it last. Only one shop had been under the hood since then, and i think they switched my dist to ported vacuum. I've re adjusted timing and vac advance, will be dropping in some new plugs this weekend and going for a test drive to see how they're reading.

    If im still showing lean on the plugs i'll jet back up a notch. I'm pretty leaned out due to living at about 5000', but can move back up on the jets and rods.


    this is the same spark plug, just both sides of it.


  13. #87
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    Do those dist use a mechanical weight and spring to add advance like Chevy ones? Have you made sure they move freely? A carb tuner guru once told me to always add lighter springs to them. He said the fuels with ethanol added need a longer burn time, so more advance was needed. I've changed to lighter springs in all my vehicles and it does seem to make them run better, esp under load.

  14. #88
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    2 weeks ago I was working on the wag with the garage door up. a lady pulled into my driveway and asked "is that a wagoneer?" I said yes, she asked "do you have interest in getting another?" I said "maybe, it depends I guess whats up?" She explained she had a 1974 that belonged to her father just sitting in the yard for 15 years. and said "You can have it, i was just going to donate it, but its yours if you can use it"

    Long story short it got parked when the gas tank sprung a leak, and there it sat. It was bought and stayed in reno its entire life in their family. She was a little emotional when it rolled away, and her 90 year old mother was there to say goodbye to it as well. They were super happy that it was going to somebody that could either revive it, or use it to keep their, and other peoples, jeeps alive and on the road.


    So, yeah. This happened.




    (coasting)







    Yeah, entire harness has been eaten.


    the cool part:

  15. #89
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    I dream of things like that happening to me, but it never does.

    Congrats, great score!

  16. The Following User Likes ManNamedJed's Post:

    Dennis (May 6th, 2016)

  17. #90
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    Well. Successful weekend. Gonna keep a long story short.

    The 74 is off to a new home in very capable hands. It will live again and hopefully be back on the road for years to come, which is what I really wanted. I let it go in trade for an MSD Atomic EFI system with all the accoutrements, including an in-tank fuel pump. I have also sourced a tank from a 78 wag to modify for the electric pump system.

    I'm pretty excited and I'm quite happy. The 74 will live on whole and original, the fellow who picked it up should have a fun and solid project, and my jeep will get EFI and hopefully pretty much end my headaches with reliability on long trips, so it will live on as well!

    I'll keep a log of my progress with the EFI.





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    ford boy (May 24th, 2016), turbobrick (May 24th, 2016)

  19. #91
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    I know it doesn't look like much but its getting there. All wires are run now, dropped and removed old tank and fuel pump, removed the lines I need to use again, I removed even MORE superfluous wiring for accessories, made all the leads for the power and ground, made all the fuel lines, mounted new tank, mocked everything up for measurements and cuts, dropped it back out, added a union so I can drop the tank without pulling the under hood lines, added the fuel filter, mounted the lines to the side of the tank, I can now permanently install the new tank.




    Several items left however. Need to measure the under hood lines, cut and mount. need to mount regulator. Then, everything will be plumbed. Need to tidy up the wiring by replacing the split loom i removed when deleting a bunch of crap, then build the little diode Y and connect the last 2 wires. Next comes the O2 sensor bung getting welded in, then finally I just need to replace my filler neck with the dual tube version that goes with my tank and connect it with hoses. I THINK thats all.

    A few nights working after I get home for a couple hours ought to get it done. I'm hopeful that I'll be able to fire it up before or during this coming weekend.

  20. #92
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    Tank is in. Fuel lines from union/filter to TBI are mocked up and measured for cut. regulator mounted. Got tired and went in for dinner before making those cuts. Will do it today. Hope to have everything 100% plumbed by the end of the night, and hope to drill o2 sensor hole.



    (yes, that all clears the linkage without any contact)

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    ford boy (June 15th, 2016), Squirrel Cage (June 15th, 2016)

  22. #93
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    So, was getting low voltage while cranking., mostly because the battery had sat for weeks, been cranked over a bunch, etc. Charged it, then charged it on my dakota with jumper cables for about half an hour. Seems to have alleviated the issue. I'll check back tonight after it has sat to see if it's still got enough juice to fire up the computer for the EFI. I cranked it for about 30 seconds total yesterday while testing, so this should be a good indicator of how it would fare in a normal situation.

    as soon as I'm done getting it up and running I'll be bypassing my ammeter which should gain me about a volt at the solenoid and should help give the battery a good high voltage charge when I'm driving. After this is all dialed in, my next move is upgrading to a 10SI alternator, with 95 amp output. That should all be a huge upgrade to my charging system.

    anyway.....had to drop the crossmember and drop the exhaust to drill for the bung, and will have my buddy weld it in tonight.





    Everything is plumbed at this point, with the exception of me installing the new filler neck, and connecting the vent nipple on the tank to the existing lines that go to the charcoal canister. I also changed up my wiring a bit more, removed the fuse for the headlight relays and am running on a breaker instead. all new 2AWG battery wires/terminals, and a brand new 4AWG starter cable.

    what's left to do is:

    1. weld the 02 sensor bung and reinstall exhaust
    2. Install filler neck and connect to tank with the $115 fuel hose i bought...
    3. connect vent nipple
    4. Connect the 12v on/off sensor wire to switched 12v for both crank and run. Need to solder up a diode in line to prevent feedback to the 12v start wire. I'm going to have all of this inside, under the dash as close to the ignition switch as possible.
    5. figure out a barb elbow fitting for the brake booster since the regular barb I installed interferes with a vacuum pot on the manifold.
    6. put fuel in it
    7. fire it up?

  23. #94
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    For #4 above, you shouldn't need to do a diode and tie into both the start wire and switched on/off wire. That's overly complicated. You need to find the wire off the ignition switch that gets hot with the ignition switch in the "on" position and stays hot during "start". This would be the circuit that feeds things like the ignition coil originally. Some of the other circuits off the ignition switch go dead during cranking to help keep the battery voltage up. Just don't out think yourself with your wiring... I really dig your build and fuel injection will be a great addition! I put an AMC 304 in my wife's XJ and used an old Holley analog pro-jection system and even though people like to hate on that old technology, it's still waaay nicer to live with daily than a carburetor...

  24. The Following User Likes Throttle Jockey's Post:

    Dr. Marneaus (June 19th, 2016)

  25. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throttle Jockey View Post
    For #4 above, you shouldn't need to do a diode and tie into both the start wire and switched on/off wire. That's overly complicated. You need to find the wire off the ignition switch that gets hot with the ignition switch in the "on" position and stays hot during "start". This would be the circuit that feeds things like the ignition coil originally. Some of the other circuits off the ignition switch go dead during cranking to help keep the battery voltage up. Just don't out think yourself with your wiring... I really dig your build and fuel injection will be a great addition! I put an AMC 304 in my wife's XJ and used an old Holley analog pro-jection system and even though people like to hate on that old technology, it's still waaay nicer to live with daily than a carburetor...
    Trust me I looked pretty deep Into that wire. Anything that was a switched 12v accessory drops to 10v or under when the vehicle is cranking, this system needs 10.3v minimum to trigger the on/off. Part of that could have been a slightly low battery but that's neither here nor there at this point. MSD system is not able to be connected to the full 12v cranking wire AT the coil, and when running the wire at the coil only has 7v. The only wire that got (close to) 12v when cranking was the ignition wire that heads to the starter solenoid., but when the key is in run it has no power. This means I had to tap into this wire to get 12v cranking and any old switched accessory for 12v when running. If I hadn't used the diode tapping into the 12v run source would have fed back to the ignition switch wire and therefore cause the starter to always Be engaged.

    There honestly is no wire on these rigs that is 12v constant in run/start. The prestolite ignition years (I think 77 and 78 only) DID have this wire.all us other guys who were on points or on duraspark do not have it.

    anyway, it's up and running. Drove it around the block last night and let it idle for a while. I intend to drive it today! Let the computer start learning.

  26. #96
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    I drove it into town today and it was pretty much fine. Idle is a bit weird but I assume its learning and its going to feel a bit different in general.

    I realized for some reason the little nipple on the gas tank wasnt venting, and it was letting out a big woosh every time i opened the gas cap. I reinstalled my old vented gas cap and that fixed the issue. So until I feel like dropping the tank again thaT'LL be my solution.

    Lastly, I realized I was only showing 13.06 volts at the battery when idling, this has always been the situation, but given this system is now installed and i need a healthy batterty, it wasnt gonna fly. So I did the ammeter bypass. 8 AWG fine strand wire from the alt to the solenoid. yellow wire abandoned at both ends, red wire from alt to the solenoid, and then insulated and capped the other end of the red wire that I removed from the ammeter.

    Fired it up and hot damn. 14 volts at idle! That should keep the battery happily charged and avoid issues like I was seeing before. Soon I will install an upgraded amperage alt, but until then I think that was a big help and a smart move.

    As mentioned idle is a bit weird right now but it was cruising up and down the highway with no issues under load or just cruising. Backfired out the muffler twice on the highway when i let off the gas but then it never did it again.

    So, its now running and driving! I intend to drive it around every night this week to get a feel for it and put a good 50 or 60 miles on it. We have a trip this weekend to a 4x4 campground so I want to get a few miles before heading out!

  27. #97
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    Fuel injection is awesome!

    Had a blast this weekend. Pics and video to come.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ry0rn5NHQ&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">

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  29. #98
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    So in preparation for HEI and to make up for this EFI and potentially for future electric fans, I went ahead and picked up a powermaster 100amp alternator that is supposedly "bolt in" according to the manufacturer.

    Well, long story short, it was not. And i was upset. Supposedly a bolt in replacement for a motorola alternator, in reality it is just a 10SI with a 1" ear at the top....and still presented all the issues of fitting a 10SI.

    However, after a an evening of work I achieved a satisfactory result by simply widening the tension slot on the bracket, then switching back to my AC belt which resulted in the alternator needing less movement for proper tension. The biggest issue with this is that I need to remove the upper bolt in order to get the belt on and off because its that tight.

    I placed a few strategic washers to eat up the bracket space, and to help better align the pulley. I'm not 100.00000% pleased with the alignment but its very minimally off and im not sure if the old one was like this or not. I could always add a washer behind the pulley.

    Got it all in and wired. everything runs smooth with no visible issues.

    On both cold and hot starts the truck hits a high enough RPM for the alternator to self excite and kick on.

    The good news is now i have double the available amperage. This alternator bench tested at 83 idle amps, 95 cruise amps, and 115 amps top end.

    The other good news is massive voltage increase even over the last round of improvements when i did the ammeter bypass. At idle i have 14.5v at the battery, 14.6 at the alt.My downstream (after fuse box) idle voltage is 14.0-14.2 depending on idle conditions.

    I kicked on my AC compressor, AC blower, heater blower, and high beams. Still have 14.2 or 14.3v at the battery and 13.9v down stream according to my EFI handheld unit.. I've never seen my interior voltage gauge hit 14v before today, and often it would register as low as 11v or less when the blinker was on.

  30. #99
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    Nice. Did that require you to add some resistance? I've heard that when changing to a SI alternator, they need to see a certain amount of resistance or they'd burn themselves up.

  31. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManNamedJed View Post
    Nice. Did that require you to add some resistance? I've heard that when changing to a SI alternator, they need to see a certain amount of resistance or they'd burn themselves up.
    Not to my knowledge. This is a 1 wire alternator vs. a standard 3 wire with remote voltage sensing. Literally all ya do is hook the one power lead to the solenoid or battery and off you go.

    On a standard 10SI you need to hook up the voltage sensing wire either to a downstream source or many people simply jump it directly to the power wire, and then the indicator light needs to run to a resistor or to a indicator/warning light. That may be where you've hear the resistance is needed.

    My old motorola with external regulator wasnt remote sensing, to my understanding, and i have no warning light so it stood to reason that a 1 wire would behave precisely the same as my old style, and i wouldnt lose any features or performance by not doing a 3 wire.

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